Do not use a rising rate FPR on the car. A rising rate FPR is not what you want. The regulator on our cars raises boost:FRP at a rate of 1:1. Meaning for every extra pound of boost you run the fuel pressure also raises 1 psi.

A raising rate FPR may be 1:16, so for every 1 psi of boost it will raise the fuel pressure say 16 psi. They have them in all different ratios and it is NOT the correct way to fix the problem you are having.

It sounds to me like the car is just borderline out of fuel. If you are done with the turbo upgrades on the car and don't plan to make a lot more power a simple bolt on 1:1 regulator is all you need (like ours). If you plan to make a lot more power in the future then you may as well put in larger injectors or do both.

 

Has anyone done 1600cc + Dual pumps on the stock rail and FPR?

I am wondering if the the second pump and 1600cc injector will over run the FPR. I know some post stated WHP limits and wrong sizing but what about this combo?


T3 37R 21-28 psi is my targeted area.

 

Would your Real tuner from Singapore be someone by the name of Kelvin?

 

A maxed injector is a maxed injector, regardless of what fuel pressure you throw at it. IDC's become the enemy stressing out the injector, and the added strain of fuel pressure above and beyond what it's meant to do in a normal operation is just asking for trouble. Even offering the leniency of a BSFC of .6 I still wouldn't run the IDC's past 85%. Plain and simple the real answer is...

You need larger injectors!


The only reason your "tuner" said a rising rate regulator (such as the vortech units that are anywhere between 1:5 and 1:12) was to use extra fuel pressure as a band-aid and is not the correct way to do it. Plus extra fuel pressure screws with the atomization process in a bad way. I won't get into explaining it here, just take my word on it and the 12 years experience of seeing it on a constant basis.

 

Yes, we run 1600cc injectors, double pumper, stock rail/regulators. The double pumper will not over run the stock regulator if the pumps are set up correctly. There is no need to run both pumps at idle. Our double pumper comes with a pressure switch that turns the second pump on at about 6 psi of boost.

slocrx1, your information is not correct on the IDC and fuel pressure, sorry. A maxed out injector running a base fuel pressure of 30 psi is going to flow a lot less than an injector running with a base fuel pressure of 43-45 psi where most injectors are flowed and rated at. I run injectors close to and at 100% constantly, I have never-ever had a problem with an injector doing this, none. I do agree with you on the Vortech type raising rate fuel pressure regulators not being the correct way to do it and stated that earlier in the thread.

 

I honestly didn't think there were this many morons on here that I had to clarify my post (heh, obviously I'm dead wrong then). Obviously if they are rated for flow at a base of 43-45psi they will flow more fuel than at 30psi. This entire thread has been about raising fuel pressure, not lowering it...so why would I suggest lowering the pressure below the stock base? If the base at idle at or below atmospheric is 38psi, and the ratio is 1:1, then with 22psi of manifold pressure that leaves you with 60psi rail pressure...still over what they are rated at.

I'm going to keep my post civil for now, but how can an "experienced engine builder" in all honesty sit here and suggest running 100% IDC? Sure you can get away with it for a short time (like at the track only, which I assume is all you do with your car), but for extended periods of time like daily driving the injectors will burn out or worse (like burn out the injector driver in the ecu) like I've seen countless times. I'm honestly quite surprised you haven't jumped on the opportunity to sell him a set of 780cc injectors or larger.

Sorry if I my comments seem a little spiteful, but I'm not your average Evo owner and neither do I care to be.

 

Yessir! He is the man...when he's actually around!

Without him, we suffer with little issues like these....nobody here can even set up an EBC properly

 

slocrx, I don't what your problem is but I'm fairly certain your experience level is less than many others on these forums. If you go back and read your post you will see how it was misleading to people who are not fully aware of how the fuel system works.

The post you just made refering to "morons" is also just as wrong as your first post. The information you just posted tells me you aren't as intelligent as you are wanting people to believe.

First off, the EVO has about 38 psi of rail pressure with the stock regulator. Every aftermarket injector our there is flowed at 43-45 psi depending on the manufacturer. So just adding an adjustable regulator to the car for an increase of 5-7 psi of rail pressure is beneficial if you are on the edge of running out of injector. Also, if you have a base rail pressure of 38 and run 22 psi of boost it does give you a rail pressure of 60 psi but that 60 psi is obviously not running the injector at over what they were rated as, as you stated. The additional pressure applied to the injector is to over come the boost pressure in the intake manifold. The actual flow of the injector is still at only 38 psi of pressure. I'm surprised you don't know that..............maybe the moron suggestion you made isn't so far after all.

Also, your little stab at me only running a car for short burst at the drag strip is as stupid as you saying this: "(like at the track only, which I assume is all you do with your car), but for extended periods of time like daily driving the injectors will burn out or worse (like burn out the injector driver in the ecu) like I've seen countless times." A car doesn't run 100% duty cycle when you are daily driving it, you must be highly confused. I can run a GT45 around all day long on a set of 550 cc injectors at 12% duty cycle, daily driving a car with no boost required almost no injector duty cycle at all. The time any car spends at WOT is very short and running it at 100% duty cycle during that time will cause no damage. I've been building cars for 20 years and have never seen any of the failures you've mentioned, ever.

I don't sell part that aren't needed, that's why you didn't see me suggest him buying larger injectors.

 

35r stock everything 406hp

 

He is definitely the man...he can cal me up in the middle of the nite to mt up & fine tune my car...tatz how erractic he is...& he is good in his tune & all those fine details. He is also well versed in Power FC & Profec B2 as well.
However he has been real busy with work recently. I have been waiting quite a while for him to tune my Aem Ems... ...
Y don't u consolidate some other Evos & check with him if he is free to fly over for another tuning session...

Two thumbs up for the Banana man...

 

You can question my experience all you want, I have no problem explaining my background. I spend the first 4 years after I got my driver's license working for an engine builder who specialized in "odd-ball" motors, such as BBC propane injected type setups and MG 1300cc engines producing in excess of 230whp naturally aspirated. During the last 2 years of working for the builder I also worked hand in hand with a race team based out of NJ specializing in Porsche/Lotus/Ferrari/MG/VW/Audi/Lola/TVR and other various european machines and spent a total of 8 years there. I cut my teeth on a Lola mk8 Indy car and Porsche 962GTP's, instead of a 13sec "4bangr", and eventually moved completely over to Honda as it was cheap and spent most of my time building consistent 450+whp Honda's, and even though I own a DSM now I still dabble with Honda. I hold nothing against you, but I won't say I agree with everything you say and take it as gospel as most other of your blind followers do.

I made the "morons" quote to say that I honestly didn't think I needed to clarify my post if the OP or anyone else replying, as honestly I figured they already knew what was being said.


You are correct there, not going to argue that. The reason for the 1:1 rate is to compensate for manifold pressure. Fuel pressure increases do not add linear flow though, and if an injector is tested and rated at 43-45psi increasing the fuel pressure (above and beyond the static base) will not increase flow through them in a linear fashion and also adds extra strain and lessens the flow from the fuel pump. But you already knew that. So that being said, why not just step up to a larger injector and stay on the safe side?

Oh really? So in any part of a 1/4 mile run you don't spend much time at WOT? Hmm, I don't know about anyone else who daily drives their Evo, but I spend quite a bit of time at WOT (and yes, I'm even maxing out my injectors and need to upgrade with 96% IDC for an extended period of time) and I like to auto-x when given the chance...which also spends considerable time at WOT. I've changed out numerous injectors that have burnt out or stuck due to 100%IDC's for extended periods of time, and never once would I suggest raising the rail pressure to get the extra little fuel needed but keep the injector maxed. I'd honestly say ask CBRD or AMS or some other tuning shop/professional and they'd agree with me...an upgrade is better. Think of it from a reliability stand point, what would happen if at 100% IDC he suddenly had an electrical problem or his alternator started dropping voltage? Flow drops from both the pump and injectors and since there is no overhead to compensate for this change...uh oh! I don't suppose you would replace the man's engine if it melted or broke something would you?

LOL that's funny, tell my friend Brian that when you sold him an Apexi Power FC and 780cc injectors when all he had was basic bolt-on's, a set of HKS 280's, and your entry level FMIC on a completely stock motor and stock '03 16g6/9.8 turbo. Which also was tuned by you guys and for some strange reason wasn't really any faster than my '03 was when I bought it stock.

Like I said, I have no problem with you, I just don't like you. Have a nice day.

 

Thanks for the explanation. I have it all figured out now. Let me clarify, you have experience sweeping floors for someone else who worked on different kinds of cars. Then you joined EVOm to give incorrect information on a car you've never made fast. Thank you. I don't like you either but I don't spend my time giving out incorrect information because of it.

As for your friends car, if he got 780 cc injectors he was advised if he did it at the time it would save him upgrading later for whatever his intentions were with the car. One tune is cheaper than two and upgrading an injectors when you are doing a stand alone and intend to do more upgrades later makes perfect sense.

 

What a good example of a company that just doesnt care and actually calls out people.. Ridiculous time to go back to business school and learn how to run a FAIR business

 

Dave, don't even waste your time on the people who won't listen anyway. You gave some good info so they can take it or leave it. We "blind followers" know what is proven and what isn't.

 

Brian is also a close personal friend to me and for you to say you dont sell parts that aren't needed is far from the truth. Even suggesting a standalone system for a car that has slightly bigger injectors and a FMIC with some overly excessive 280 race cams YOU installed is a bit overkill. Fact is SloCRX is running at close to 100% IDC with his stock 560 injectors on his Evo VIII with daily driving, how could you possibly say that running an injector at close to 100% of its duty cycle be ok? Why not upgrade the injectors for now and for further upgrades like you suggest for many other people. Stop trying to get into pissing matchs with everyone who disagrees with you