10,000 mile oil changes?!?
Dec 18, 2008, 08:30 PM
#17
I'll take a sample of my Mobil 1 10W-30 at 5k miles and send it in for analysis. Plenty of autocross and dyno time in that 5k too. My guess it comes back with plenty of life still remaining in it. My friend, running a nearly identical setup, will do so too.
Dec 19, 2008, 01:03 AM
#18
I'll also send a sample to blackstone labs once the car hits 25K. 3.5K miles to go.
5K change interval on German Castrol Syntec 05W30 w/ Napa Gold Filter.
Since the last oil change, the car has seen a couple of mountain runs but is a daily driver most of the time.
5K change interval on German Castrol Syntec 05W30 w/ Napa Gold Filter.
Since the last oil change, the car has seen a couple of mountain runs but is a daily driver most of the time.
Dec 19, 2008, 05:38 AM
#19
this is one where it'll take another 20 yrs to overcome the "change it when it's black" or "change it every 3k" mentality. For a street driven car this is just not necessary. It's not 1975 anymore. Oil is much better, even conventional oil, than it was decades ago. Cars run cleaner with unleaded gas and EFI than they did with leaded gas and carburetors attempting to correctly meter fuel. Yet people still think the same change interval is necessary? How many cars go to the junkyard today from not having the oil changed often enough? You'd have to really abuse it to do shorten the engine life on a street driven car.
Conventional oil in my wife's civic tested at a ~6500 mile change was still in great shape, good for another 2k? miles according to the analysis. And interestingly, the analysis results/recommendations corresponded exactly with the % oil life remaining meter that is displayed in the instr cluster. Guess those Honda engineers actually did some research.
Mobil 1 at 5k from my Evo still had significant life remaining (I can't remember and too lazy look it up) but I will change it at 5k since that's what mitsu says for max change interval.
Black oil is normal. The black is small enough so it passes thru the filter therefore it won't hurt anything.
Of course typing this is all pointless as it will convince no one.
Conventional oil in my wife's civic tested at a ~6500 mile change was still in great shape, good for another 2k? miles according to the analysis. And interestingly, the analysis results/recommendations corresponded exactly with the % oil life remaining meter that is displayed in the instr cluster. Guess those Honda engineers actually did some research.
Mobil 1 at 5k from my Evo still had significant life remaining (I can't remember and too lazy look it up) but I will change it at 5k since that's what mitsu says for max change interval.
Black oil is normal. The black is small enough so it passes thru the filter therefore it won't hurt anything.
Of course typing this is all pointless as it will convince no one.
Dec 19, 2008, 07:29 AM
#20
^ I'll still change it when its black. I run a cocktail of 110 leaded almost year round and lapping days are hell of alot harder on oil than a 60 second autocross or spirited rip down a twisty road. To put it in perspective.... I'm changing my brake fluid as often as motor oil!
Dec 19, 2008, 07:53 AM
#21
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Oil is much better, even conventional oil, than it was decades ago. Agreed Cars run cleaner with unleaded gas and EFI than they did with leaded gas and carburetors attempting to correctly meter fuel. Also Agreed Yet people still think the same change interval is necessary? Vehicles are harder on oil in other ways today such as More HP per CI, Hotter Running,.... cars ran at 160 degrees back when and are running better than 210 water temps which increases oil temp. For every 10 Degree increase in oil temp, there is a marked decrease in it's life.. MTBE instead of Lead... Had to add something to take leads place...., lower ZDDP levels, which will elevate wear thus contaminating oil.... How many cars go to the junkyard today from not having the oil changed often enough? They are out there.. I recently had a customer that figured if AMSOIL can go 1 yr in their vehicle, their oil could too. I will try and post the sludge deposits that are sitting on top of my drain pan.... You'd have to really abuse it to do shorten the engine life on a street driven car.
Just driving a car in normal conditions can be abuse enough...
Much of what you said has Merit, so please don't take what I said wrong, but can not be used as a "Cookie Cutter" for changing oil.
Are Engines better today ? Absolutely
Are oils better today ? Without any doubt.
The oils are better today because they are forced to be to protect todays engines that put more pressure and demand on today's oils.
Black oil is normal. The black is small enough so it passes thru the filter therefore it won't hurt anything.
Of course typing this is all pointless as it will convince no one.
Just driving a car in normal conditions can be abuse enough...
Much of what you said has Merit, so please don't take what I said wrong, but can not be used as a "Cookie Cutter" for changing oil.
Are Engines better today ? Absolutely
Are oils better today ? Without any doubt.
The oils are better today because they are forced to be to protect todays engines that put more pressure and demand on today's oils.
Black oil is normal. The black is small enough so it passes thru the filter therefore it won't hurt anything.
Of course typing this is all pointless as it will convince no one.
Dec 19, 2008, 08:42 AM
#22
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I changed oil every 2K miles when I was using Mobil 1 EP and OEM filter. Now with Amsoil and EA filter, I do it every 3K miles. I wasted a lot of oil but peace of mind is priceless.
Dec 19, 2008, 09:38 AM
#23
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I just pull dipstick, and rub oil between my fingers. If it feels kind of like lotion and is slippery, it's ok. If if has a consistency closer to water, it's getting changed.
126,842 miles on my 03 and it doesn't burn oil.
My money, my car.
126,842 miles on my 03 and it doesn't burn oil.
My money, my car.
Dec 19, 2008, 10:32 AM
#25
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Yep, your money, your car...
But some people like to do more for their car or whatever.
You CANNOT tell if oil is bad by looking at it, feling it, smelling it or even tasting it.
Naturally, there are some indicators, but if you can feel it, smell it or taste it, chances are, you are already overdue. Analysis...
Almost 345,000 miles on my van... Don't burn any oil.... Has probably had fewer oil changes than most cars with 45,000 miles much less 345,000
That is the difference when science is used compared to a guessing game.
I find it hard to believe that a Forum where so many seem to be Tech Savvy (Science) in not only their jobs, but with the performance mods on their vehicles, and won't use the best instrument available for accurately judging not just when maintenance is due, but if there are any problems going on right from Air Filtration on down.
Merry Christmas,
Doc
Dec 19, 2008, 02:14 PM
#28
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Cars burn gasoline and convert it into ash, acid and other resides. Some of this as well as water and gasoline gets into the oil. Fumes from blowby condense on internal parts and plate on. This is varnish. Good oil with detergent will remove varnish. So, I don't care if the oil came down from heaven, after a few thousand miles, if it doing its job, it is full of crud. And, I don't need a lab report to tell me the oil is dirty, a visual analysis of the dip stick will do.
Forget about all the glorious synthetic technology, the only reason to run synthetic oil in an Evo is to keep it from coking in the turbo. Otherwise, dino would do fine.
Forget about all the glorious synthetic technology, the only reason to run synthetic oil in an Evo is to keep it from coking in the turbo. Otherwise, dino would do fine.
Dec 19, 2008, 04:42 PM
#29
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Cars burn gasoline and convert it into ash, acid and other resides. Some of this as well as water and gasoline gets into the oil. Fumes from blowby condense on internal parts and plate on. This is varnish. Good oil with detergent will remove varnish. So, I don't care if the oil came down from heaven, after a few thousand miles, if it doing its job, it is full of crud. And, I don't need a lab report to tell me the oil is dirty, a visual analysis of the dip stick will do.
These are the reasons to run a High TBN oil such as AMSOIL SSO which has a 13.2 TBN, almost 3 times that of most petroleum oils. This is noted in the original Post showing a 5.8 TBN, still more than many petroleum oils when new. It is the water vapor mixed with combustion by-products that forms the acidity in the oil.
All oils have a Detergent/Dispersant Package but to what degree and for how long they last is the question. Many times, they are long gone before the oil change is due.
Forget about all the glorious synthetic technology, the only reason to run synthetic oil in an Evo is to keep it from coking in the turbo. Otherwise, dino would do fine.
These are the reasons to run a High TBN oil such as AMSOIL SSO which has a 13.2 TBN, almost 3 times that of most petroleum oils. This is noted in the original Post showing a 5.8 TBN, still more than many petroleum oils when new. It is the water vapor mixed with combustion by-products that forms the acidity in the oil.
All oils have a Detergent/Dispersant Package but to what degree and for how long they last is the question. Many times, they are long gone before the oil change is due.
Forget about all the glorious synthetic technology, the only reason to run synthetic oil in an Evo is to keep it from coking in the turbo. Otherwise, dino would do fine.
Although it is an excellent reason to run a True Synthetic, it goes well beyond that of coking the Turbo Line. Oils such as AMSOIL SSO and Mobil 1 use Esters which are Excellent Cleaners and also Polarize the oils. Another place where "All Synthetics are NOT alike", a pure PAO oil does not protect as well due to the lack of Polarity.
Oil has 4 Major Functions: Cool, Clean, Seal and Lubricate. A True Synthetic will do them all better than a Petroleum oil.
Oils such as AMSOIL and M 1 being PAO Products, will also give you a smoother running engine, cooler running, more HP, better fuel mileage and better wear protection whether the engine is cold or hot.
Doc
Dec 31, 2008, 08:14 AM
#30
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So, just to be clear, I never said that Amsoil was inferior to Mobil 1. It isn't, Amsoil rules. For the Evo owner that doesn't frequent the track, this is the only option I would recommend. I have used Amsoil in many other vehicles and have not been disappointed.
However, I'm not going to get a $22.5 oil analysis after every track weekend to see if I should change the oil or not. Instead, I will spend $30 and just change the oil and filter. It would cost me more to use Amsoil, even if I didn't have to change it every weekend, since I would need to be getting an oil analysis every time I turned around. After thousands of track miles, she has been running like a champ so I am happy. That being said, it probably would be a good idea to get an analysis done at least once.
...or maybe I'm just crazy - that's totally possible.
However, I'm not going to get a $22.5 oil analysis after every track weekend to see if I should change the oil or not. Instead, I will spend $30 and just change the oil and filter. It would cost me more to use Amsoil, even if I didn't have to change it every weekend, since I would need to be getting an oil analysis every time I turned around. After thousands of track miles, she has been running like a champ so I am happy. That being said, it probably would be a good idea to get an analysis done at least once.
...or maybe I'm just crazy - that's totally possible.