Blown engine at 81k. Looking for Advice
Jan 26, 2009, 05:53 PM
#19
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I have an idea
Buy a used gallant 2.4 L block and send it to Buschur for the 2.1 L build - you can get the block for between 2 - 400.
Usually the heads can be fixed no problem becuse the valves take a lot of the impact - trust me I know
Al
Buy a used gallant 2.4 L block and send it to Buschur for the 2.1 L build - you can get the block for between 2 - 400.
Usually the heads can be fixed no problem becuse the valves take a lot of the impact - trust me I know
Al
Jan 26, 2009, 08:31 PM
#21
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Also...dont forget about all the little items that you will need. At 81k it is time to replace most of these....timing belt, timing belt tensioner, tensioner pulley, Idler pulley, oil pump, water pump, oil cooler (if a lot of metal went through it, it is done for) head gasket, remaining engine gasket kit, fluids, new spark plugs, head studs, possibly the turbo to manifold bolts, O2 housing bolts tend to break off, down pipe gasket. These items cost little in comparison to the shortblock but really add up.
I built my engine over the course of about 2 months when I finally got my AMS shortblock. I was at the dealer ordering bolts, filters, certain gaskets I wanted right away, I broke the boost control soleniod while installing the engine.
The shortblock alone was over 5k with the core charge. Dont forget your head need to be looked at. A simple rebuild should be around 1k. Major headwork such as porting will add up quick too.
Just factor all that into your costs. It may only be $500-600 difference for the 2.3 vs 2.0 but funds could run short if not planned correctly. 2.1L is a major undertaking to build. You need a 4G64 block (specific car and model year is required) water pump adaptor, adjustable cam gears (due to the taller deck height) longer timing belt and there are really no published specs for the cam timing. I would only do this if a very reputable shop was building the long block for me (and I built and installed my own motor from the shortblock up, by myself I might add) I attempted a 2.1L build and ended up selling the motor years ago because at the time, not even AMS or Buschur had any real insight, but that has since changed. I would not recommend a 2.1L for a home built project.
Of course all this is just advice. Take it for what you will. Good luck and if you have any questions...just ask. Most of this stuff is fresh in my mind as I just did my motor last month.
I built my engine over the course of about 2 months when I finally got my AMS shortblock. I was at the dealer ordering bolts, filters, certain gaskets I wanted right away, I broke the boost control soleniod while installing the engine.
The shortblock alone was over 5k with the core charge. Dont forget your head need to be looked at. A simple rebuild should be around 1k. Major headwork such as porting will add up quick too.
Just factor all that into your costs. It may only be $500-600 difference for the 2.3 vs 2.0 but funds could run short if not planned correctly. 2.1L is a major undertaking to build. You need a 4G64 block (specific car and model year is required) water pump adaptor, adjustable cam gears (due to the taller deck height) longer timing belt and there are really no published specs for the cam timing. I would only do this if a very reputable shop was building the long block for me (and I built and installed my own motor from the shortblock up, by myself I might add) I attempted a 2.1L build and ended up selling the motor years ago because at the time, not even AMS or Buschur had any real insight, but that has since changed. I would not recommend a 2.1L for a home built project.
Of course all this is just advice. Take it for what you will. Good luck and if you have any questions...just ask. Most of this stuff is fresh in my mind as I just did my motor last month.
Jan 27, 2009, 10:02 AM
#22
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Wow, I am happy that all of you are talking to me about this stuff. This is a big deal to me and having so much help makes it easier. I am not sure I have the patience to go through with the 2.1L idea, but I have been looking around and located a couple Evo IX engines for cheaper than Evo VIII engines. How hard would the swap be other than wiring? Speaking of swaps, I also had an idea last night whilst I was searching around for engines. I have found a couple places that have the Evo 6.5 engine available. If anyone knows, how hard would that be to make that swap? I am just asking, because I really want to get the most out of my money, and thus having some crazy ideas. On the note of timing belt and ect. I would only need that if I did keep my head right? Keep the advice coming guys, I want to learn as much as possible through this experience.
Thank you all,
Dave
Thank you all,
Dave
Jan 27, 2009, 12:46 PM
#25
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Just figure they may need a rebuild:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-LA...spagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4G63-...spagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-LA...spagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4G63-...spagenameZWDVW
Jan 27, 2009, 05:00 PM
#26
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Thanks again for everyone's attention to detail and help. I am beginning to lose hope of getting a new engine due to lack of funding... 
But, I am not totally against getting a used block or engine and just rebuilding it. Please keep the advice coming. Is the idea of buying used too risky? I am not sure as of yet, but with limited budget, I may have to make a tough decision.
But, I am not totally against getting a used block or engine and just rebuilding it. Please keep the advice coming. Is the idea of buying used too risky? I am not sure as of yet, but with limited budget, I may have to make a tough decision.
Jan 27, 2009, 06:50 PM
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These engines arent cheap thats for sure. Buying a used one...depends. If you could somehow get a compression test or leak down test prior to purchase that would give you the best picture of the engines health. If not, well....buyer beware I suppose. Just purchasing a used block to bore and rehone...no prob. The machine shop will take care of all the details and I would suggest lettign AMS, BR, Jam build your shortblock.
The timing belt and related parts you want to replace. You will want to replace the oil pump and water pump. Your oil cooler is suspect of being contaminated. You wouldnt want to install a new engine and then have metal from the old engine that was stuck in the cooler come out into your new bearings. That would be bad. Personally, I had metal in my engine. I did not replace the cooler. But I cleaned the hell out of it by sticking it onto a solvent tank pump, flowing solvent for hours, ran iso alcohol thru it, blew it out with shop air and repeated several times. I also poured all contents out thru a coffee filter to see if any particles came out. None ever did. Thats not always the case and I was advised against doing this but...I trust myself.
Something else, if you dont have a factory manual...get one. It lists all the torques and specs for putting the engine together and is invaluable. PM me if you have a hard time locating one. I can point you in the right direction.
The timing belt and related parts you want to replace. You will want to replace the oil pump and water pump. Your oil cooler is suspect of being contaminated. You wouldnt want to install a new engine and then have metal from the old engine that was stuck in the cooler come out into your new bearings. That would be bad. Personally, I had metal in my engine. I did not replace the cooler. But I cleaned the hell out of it by sticking it onto a solvent tank pump, flowing solvent for hours, ran iso alcohol thru it, blew it out with shop air and repeated several times. I also poured all contents out thru a coffee filter to see if any particles came out. None ever did. Thats not always the case and I was advised against doing this but...I trust myself.
Something else, if you dont have a factory manual...get one. It lists all the torques and specs for putting the engine together and is invaluable. PM me if you have a hard time locating one. I can point you in the right direction.
Jan 28, 2009, 02:08 AM
#30
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i have a good block that i will sell ya for 1000 shipped.. or i could build it for ya to a 2.3l stroker for a extra 1300.00. 2300 u would have a 2.3l stroker just like mine in my car thats y i took out the org block.