Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Splitting the pulses doesn't achieve anything within itself. The twinscroll designs significantly reduces the biggest killer of exhaust pulse energy - the huge, abrupt transition between exhaust primary diameter and turbine housing.

If one were to take the barrel of a gun and suddenly increase the diameter by a factor of 3-4X, the result would be a decrease in projectile acceleration due to a decrease in gas energy. The effect with exhaust system design is the same.

ITS n STI

How about you buy me a TS housing from Ron for my 6262 and I'll do some back to back testing for you.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

If Ron can materialize a TS T4 housing for that turbo in a size that is rougly equal to a Garrett 1.06 TS T4, you will find the power delivery to be remarkably more linear and more responsive everywhere.

Magnumpsi

iTrader: (2)

I do have data on TS setups on another Evo. I posted this a while back but there is plenty of data in it.

Hope this helps:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...roll-data.html

Mitch M

Shearer

iTrader: (6)

That is an impressive difference if it's capable of holding good power through the upper RPM range.

There are a lot of variables to throw into the mix as to why that difference is there...

How similarly built are the two EVO's that you are comparing(engine, gearing, cams, etc...)?
What are the power differences on the other end of the spectrum in higher the RPM range?
Did the other car have a standard 35r?
When are you seeing 20psi by in 3rd gear?
How much power is your car making and is it sustaining that power until redline?



BTW, the new set-up looks good.

Shearer

iTrader: (6)

My buddy at Honeywell just gave me a call back with a little more clarification. He talked to the "turbine housing guru" and both sides of the party are correct when it comes to the divider being taken into consideration.

Apparently the old style turbine housings did not take the divider into consideration when determining the A/R ratio. New tooling for turbine housings does take the divider into consideration when determining A/R ratio. There wasn't much of a solid definition defining what is an old and what is a new style turbine housing though.

When new cores are built for old tooling they are supposed to recalculate the A/R ratio to current standards however sometimes times it's done and sometimes it's not.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

I'm out of fuel injector and my TB shaft has a fairly large boost leak, so I can provide more high rpm power insight on the other side of these two issues (working on resolutions now). According to the MAF signal, power is rising at the point of fuel starvation (32XX Hz). I've seen .95 A/R TS T4s deliver 750+whp with a GT40R, so I'm not anticipating any limitations from my larger 1.06.

The other EVO I have in mind for the sake of comparison is a built 2.0L with ported head, and full list of typical goods. It uses an HTA 3586R, which spools like a 35R, but the billet compressor wheel generates much better efficiency (and power) than a standard 35R, with no apparent spool penalty.

In 3rd gear, I see 20 psi by right about 4000rpm.


Thanks Ron!

Geoff Raicer

iTrader: (7)

ignorance indeed. In all honesty - if you want to make Full-Race look bad and Shearer look good, this is not the way to do it... You have the audacity to demand that I give you an education - yet in the same breath you tell me im wet behind the ears?

I do in fact have shelves of 3 ringed binders in my office, milk crates full of old documents I no longer reference and even some rare books on the subject. I have read and understand every document in every binder and every book on my shelves. Ill help you get a little more educated, heck ill even fax you some documents to get started but im not gonna spend MY time spoon feeding YOU b/c you're too lazy to do any real research to better yourself or your products.

there you go ron .. go take ted's twinscroll hype-mobile for a ride and compare it to your hype-free singlescroll hta shearer kit You wont even need my help and you can figure this one out for yourself!!


cmon ted, you know twinscroll doesnt do anything its just that the pesky divider is in the way making the a/r smaller

there are posts from garrett engineers in this thread, and plenty of other posts on this site from other garrett engineers as well, they are just not being loud about their day job...

properly modded evos are insane cars, no question about it, but a well setup subaru is no joke..


why? i think they respond very similarly, the only times they dont are when you are using a sub-par setup on the EJ

I disagree - I see nothing wrong with comparing 2 completely different engines with the same turbo. The reason your subie buddies reds/greens suck compared to an evo red/green is that *SUPRISE* subaru stock turbos are singlescroll, evo stock turbos are twinscroll!... yeap twinscroll is all hype

absolutely. ej engines IMHO should be twinscroll or stock turbo. t3 is a complete waste of time.

ummm ok... the people who think the divided "tang" cuts down on volume (it is not a tang, tang is short for tangential btw) are simply not correct. thats it.

dont believe it ron, its hype.

keep in mind your setup has a smaller "R" than the .95 you are comparing against...

juanmedina

iTrader: (1)

thank you

ITS n STI

Why? Because he's comparing his million dollar evo to the Subaru that is stock with a turbo kit..

bolio

I think folks have doubts about power up top and really want to see a built EVO with a 35r or 4088r frame FullRace TS kit, or any other good TS kit show some trap speeds to compare to the insane AMS and Buschur 9 second Evos. Someone needs to borrow a pair of huevos turn the boost up and show us what these TS kits are capable of.

I think Evodan has been the only one to show his trap speeds, but he wasn't pushing it and his car is currently being built with a 4088r I believe. Why not make one pass Ted, to back up the #'s? Thats the best advertisement FullRace could get, some kick *** trap speeds for the strip to go with the great spool and response for the street and road course. How long has it been without one video or slip? yet we are garanteed it matches the REAL WORLD power of the single scroll, lets see it.

Jay Meagher

I did get to speak to some Garrett engineers at the PRI show. I asked about the "hype" and why they didn't push it in their product. They said that for most that increased response or spool it was because of the smaller effective A/R with the divider in it. I read earlier in this thread that the "newer" turbine housings had the A/R calculated into the final label where as the older ones didn't.
What is what and who is who here... Trends and hype are always going always going to follow money. I can't knock Full-Race because he offers a really nice finished product that even in todays times holds a high price point. What is needed is good 3rd party data. I would be willing to test/log/post real findings if there was a gain. IMO I don't think it's worth the effort. I have been in this car game long enough to see how the veterans showcase product to the newcomers. A good friend of mine told me to wipe my *** with the compressor map and just use the turbo that would support the HP goal... The other side is the spectrum of the OE engineers that have a *** load of math/money/and testing equipment. Both the Gt-R and the 335i are examples of great factory engineering.

I don't want to sound sloppy but you have to come to terms with the beauty of the turbocharger. There are so many things that can be "wrong" in a combination and it still work really well. If you just look into any class racing that both turbos and superchargers are allowed. The turbo is a 91mm wheel compared to a 122mm Supercharger.... Look at the 80's turbo F1 cars... "Junk" compared to todays standards.

I think the newbies are looking for whats in the pulp fiction suitcase and the people that have bills to pay are looking to offer it. This discussion is no different than debating peak power afr's.

ceegutta

TedB ,what size AR hsing are u using on your turbo by the way? Thanx Never mind, I see 1.06.

evoPirate

iTrader: (12)

Geoff - I can see making comparisons to similar cars...but the suby and evo are just too different. I mean our runners are what.....12-15" vs (suby guys help me here) over 4 feet? Now if you were comparing say.....a honda and toyota 4cyl, at least they're both similar set up engines, not a boxer with long headers vs an inline. Either way, I'm just happy I got a qoute and response from Full-Race in a thread LOL Love your stuff though Geoff, unfortunately I didn't get a chance to use the F-R PS mani I bought, sold it to another member here recently. But when I'm ready for my kit, I'll be heading your way. Made that choice years ago. TS + altitude, good match

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Maybe you missed one of our member's 2.3L with TS T4 4088R that generated 40psi by 4200rpm and ran 156mph traps in a 3000+lb DSM (753whp + 715ft/lb)? I'm not sure what more you need.

As for my personal car, when I am satisfied that I have resolved my rather serious boost leak (TB shaft issue) and have my fueling sorted, I'll do exactly that. After all, I'm sure you'll agree that we want to see what happens when everything is completely sorted, yes?

I'll also post a side-by-side cockpit video to illustrate the difference in spool time.