T3 Twin scroll turbo?
Jul 27, 2009, 08:06 PM
#91
hey dude, sorry to bring this back..but i'm just making sure I don't want you to spread any more misinformation about subaru's, or the ej257 you speak of. On a well tuned stock motor, a 35r turbo .86 housing can hit full boost at ~3600rpm and i've seen it many times. This was a single scroll setup as well, I don't know why juanmedina has come in here and misrepresented the ej257'd sti's.
Jul 27, 2009, 08:15 PM
#92
Evolved Member
anyway, your build is awesome and i've read up on it. You are a smart fellow so I wanted you to know the data you had in your mind was wayy wrong and that the 2.5 liter wrx's spool large turbo's extremely fast, the stock location 35r'd 2.5 liter subies put down 500whp with just a walbro, injectors, and a large top mount intercooler(spearco is best)...pretty cheap 500whp car
reliability is another thing....I think a 500whp evo lasts quite a bit longer than a 500whp STi, but you tell me as you have seen more evo's, as to the reliability....I really want your opinion as i'm going to build an evo next. What's the best power level to run at..I never want to rebuild it, it's expensive and I want a true daily driver that can't pop, what's the highest power you would run with on an excellent tune(one tune for high heat, summer...and one for cold like in winter)
Jul 27, 2009, 08:25 PM
#93
A 2.5l engine has 25% more displacement than 2.0l, and that should make a substantial difference when it comes to spool characteristics.
If I were going to build a Subie or any other aluminum case boxer engine, I would anchor those cases together with the strongest aftermarket studs I could find. Even the slightest flex in those cases will be the end of the engine.
As for an EVO, with factory engine, I would put a tight lid of 500whp on it, and that's more than my better judgment says is safe. Just remember, there are no guarantees. When she goes, she goes.
If I were going to build a Subie or any other aluminum case boxer engine, I would anchor those cases together with the strongest aftermarket studs I could find. Even the slightest flex in those cases will be the end of the engine.
As for an EVO, with factory engine, I would put a tight lid of 500whp on it, and that's more than my better judgment says is safe. Just remember, there are no guarantees. When she goes, she goes.
Jul 27, 2009, 09:26 PM
#94
The EJ is pretty stout.
Case flex can be taken care of with some stock sized L19s.
Stock sleeves will even handle 650+ WHP...until you get one good hit of detonation.
The crank will start bending on the EJ25 around the 500 ft-lb (wheel) range though...
Case flex can be taken care of with some stock sized L19s.
Stock sleeves will even handle 650+ WHP...until you get one good hit of detonation.
The crank will start bending on the EJ25 around the 500 ft-lb (wheel) range though...
Jul 28, 2009, 06:51 AM
#95
hey dude, sorry to bring this back..but i'm just making sure I don't want you to spread any more misinformation about subaru's, or the ej257 you speak of. On a well tuned stock motor, a 35r turbo .86 housing can hit full boost at ~3600rpm and i've seen it many times. This was a single scroll setup as well, I don't know why juanmedina has come in here and misrepresented the ej257'd sti's.
Twin scroll really shines on the subaru, but at the same time I do see the twinscroll car's not being the huge hp subies...and same with evo's....so once more people start using their evo's 2.0 liter or 2.3 with twinscroll setups that go for drag racing and set really good passes...there will be more believers
as for now, it's cheaper to go with a single scroll turbo for evo's and go fast. I understand why the twin scroll manifolds are more expensive as they require more man hours to create..but it's what comes stock on your evo's. It's the whole thinking that people don't think
that
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one is better than the other...a big wide pipe or two pipes..most people think one large pipe is better..it's just fundamentally correct(but the ts guys are telling us it isn't becuase of the pulses and how they can cancel one another if not recieved at the correct time), but for high pressure(more heat), you want a smaller pipe
I love evo's and will build one next, well I want buschur too
but it's not because I wouldn't want to learn, but because he's mastered it. In a couple more years or less the subies will catch up, they are already are starting to run 9 second passes more (only a few 35r stock weight guys have I believe) and it's just the tuning and I think drag race tuning that are lacking...it also seems that mivec and avcs are just as good as on another...a 2.0 liter evo spools a twinscroll 35r at ~4000rpm I believe? and a subie 2.5 liter does it around ~3600rpm on a twinscroll..your the math guru, show me whats up now that you have the correct data to input 
``
Twin scroll really shines on the subaru, but at the same time I do see the twinscroll car's not being the huge hp subies...and same with evo's....so once more people start using their evo's 2.0 liter or 2.3 with twinscroll setups that go for drag racing and set really good passes...there will be more believers
as for now, it's cheaper to go with a single scroll turbo for evo's and go fast. I understand why the twin scroll manifolds are more expensive as they require more man hours to create..but it's what comes stock on your evo's. It's the whole thinking that people don't think
that
----------
----------
and
============
============
one is better than the other...a big wide pipe or two pipes..most people think one large pipe is better..it's just fundamentally correct(but the ts guys are telling us it isn't becuase of the pulses and how they can cancel one another if not recieved at the correct time), but for high pressure(more heat), you want a smaller pipe
I love evo's and will build one next, well I want buschur too
but it's not because I wouldn't want to learn, but because he's mastered it. In a couple more years or less the subies will catch up, they are already are starting to run 9 second passes more (only a few 35r stock weight guys have I believe) and it's just the tuning and I think drag race tuning that are lacking...it also seems that mivec and avcs are just as good as on another...a 2.0 liter evo spools a twinscroll 35r at ~4000rpm I believe? and a subie 2.5 liter does it around ~3600rpm on a twinscroll..your the math guru, show me whats up now that you have the correct data to input ``. However, Is possible to get a 35R at low 4000rpms. I have foged pistons, BC 272 cams, fully ported heads and 3-angle port job on the valves, I am reving to 7K.
I am looking to for the fastest spool on 35R size turbo so I will either go single scroll or T3 TS scroll. Stock location turbos are out the question, it will not get me my goals.
TY
Jul 28, 2009, 09:23 AM
#96
Evolved Member
and I would just like to really ask you, why are you spouting off bad info???? We can spoool a 35r wayyy faster than almost 5000rpm which you first stated...it's closer to late 3000 then to high 4000's bro..where is your rounding skills at
many many guys hit 15-16psi on the street at 3,300rpm and ~21psi at 3800rpm
we don't run north of 30lbs of boost so our peak boost can be at ~4200rpm but it's still not nearly as bad as you were saying. Your numbers you spewed up were embarassing and I can't sit by and let you attest to something that's not true
here's a very good spooling 2.5 liter ej257, might be built and might be one of the better spooling..but it's still a dyno graph that backs up more than your mouth...If the evo guy's see this, they will not think they have that large of an advantage, as they don't. Especially on the road coarse/auto x
I will continue to add to this thread as all the testing is completed.
I had to make a post because I was never expecting it to make this much power with so many stock pieces and such few power mods.
I have the privelage of testing the new AMS Rotated GT35r turbo kit on my personal 08sti. This kit was made for the 02-07 impreza so I had to adapt it to work on my 08sti, which meant modding a few pieces like the intake and downpipe so the ones pictured are not AMS's pieces FWIW. But I would expect with in the next few weeks AMS will have the new pieces Jigged up for the 08sti so have no fear 08sti guys I am sure they will have you covered. For everyone else their kit will bolt right up and honestly it should only be about a days worth of work. It comes with very detailed instructions so I assume anyone with a basic mechanical skill could do the install. If not then give us a ring and we can get you hooked up
The AMS turbo kit's quality is second to none... I have yet to see such a well built kit. Hands down this is the most complete kit I have ever seen. From the time the box arrived I have been amazed. Every piece in the box was packaged in expanding foam to keep it safe. Every nut, bolt, zip tie, hose, clamps, etc.. that you could ever need to install the kit was also there. Not once did I have to run and find a bolt or hose to make it work. AMS has once again come through with a winning piece. I can say without a doubt that it gets the TOPSPEED STAMP OF APPROVAL!!
I plan on doing alot of testing with this kit since its on my persoal STI. My first plans are to switch out the current .82ar Tial V-band to a .63ar tial housing. I will post the dyno results when I do so, but as it sits now I am again surprised by the tial .82ar housing. Currently I am seeing 14psi @3600rpms and then 20psi @3900rpms. This is outstading for a .82ar housing as usually we don't see 20psi till low to mid 4k rpms. .
Deatschwerks also provided me with their very nice 850cc topfeed injectors, which are by far the nicest set of 850cc I have tuned. I have tuned on every type and brand of injector made and these DW850cc injectors are the $h!t, they start idle and drive just like factory everytime. I highly recommend anyone looking for a set of injectors to purchase a set of Deatschwerks and never look back.
Since this is my car and my DD I like to do things outside of the norm, so the car is setup to run the factory 08sti TMIC which in my opinion is a very well built piece. The fin density and core size is unbeatable, I have yet to find an intercooler that I think will beat the new stock sti's piece at a sub 500hp power level. The previous year sti's I could make about 400-430whp before the TMIC was just tapped out of flow. Well as some know the new 08sti runs a much larger factory TMIC which is why I wanted to push it. I had expected it to do well and support 450-500whp. While on the dyno doing 4th gear pulls the TMIC never got hot, hell it was barely warm to the touch. I was expecting it to work well but at this point I am beyond amazed... only thing I can attest it to is the fact that at 20psi the GT35r's output air temps are pretty low.
Clearly the combo of these few parts work very well.
I will post more as I do more testing.
MODS" (yes all four)
AMS GT35R TURBO KIT
DEATSCHWERKS 850CC TOPFEEDS
UEL 4-1 HEADER
COBB apV2 - Tuned by myself of course
Still stock but to be upgraded
Stock Catback
Stock Intercooler
Stock Fuel Pump
Stock Longblock w/tgv's
Stock Clutch
I am sorry about my crappy pics all I had was my phone
Doug W.
TopSpeed Inc.
.
I had to make a post because I was never expecting it to make this much power with so many stock pieces and such few power mods.
I have the privelage of testing the new AMS Rotated GT35r turbo kit on my personal 08sti. This kit was made for the 02-07 impreza so I had to adapt it to work on my 08sti, which meant modding a few pieces like the intake and downpipe so the ones pictured are not AMS's pieces FWIW. But I would expect with in the next few weeks AMS will have the new pieces Jigged up for the 08sti so have no fear 08sti guys I am sure they will have you covered. For everyone else their kit will bolt right up and honestly it should only be about a days worth of work. It comes with very detailed instructions so I assume anyone with a basic mechanical skill could do the install. If not then give us a ring and we can get you hooked up
The AMS turbo kit's quality is second to none... I have yet to see such a well built kit. Hands down this is the most complete kit I have ever seen. From the time the box arrived I have been amazed. Every piece in the box was packaged in expanding foam to keep it safe. Every nut, bolt, zip tie, hose, clamps, etc.. that you could ever need to install the kit was also there. Not once did I have to run and find a bolt or hose to make it work. AMS has once again come through with a winning piece. I can say without a doubt that it gets the TOPSPEED STAMP OF APPROVAL!!
I plan on doing alot of testing with this kit since its on my persoal STI. My first plans are to switch out the current .82ar Tial V-band to a .63ar tial housing. I will post the dyno results when I do so, but as it sits now I am again surprised by the tial .82ar housing. Currently I am seeing 14psi @3600rpms and then 20psi @3900rpms. This is outstading for a .82ar housing as usually we don't see 20psi till low to mid 4k rpms. .
Deatschwerks also provided me with their very nice 850cc topfeed injectors, which are by far the nicest set of 850cc I have tuned. I have tuned on every type and brand of injector made and these DW850cc injectors are the $h!t, they start idle and drive just like factory everytime. I highly recommend anyone looking for a set of injectors to purchase a set of Deatschwerks and never look back.
Since this is my car and my DD I like to do things outside of the norm, so the car is setup to run the factory 08sti TMIC which in my opinion is a very well built piece. The fin density and core size is unbeatable, I have yet to find an intercooler that I think will beat the new stock sti's piece at a sub 500hp power level. The previous year sti's I could make about 400-430whp before the TMIC was just tapped out of flow. Well as some know the new 08sti runs a much larger factory TMIC which is why I wanted to push it. I had expected it to do well and support 450-500whp. While on the dyno doing 4th gear pulls the TMIC never got hot, hell it was barely warm to the touch. I was expecting it to work well but at this point I am beyond amazed... only thing I can attest it to is the fact that at 20psi the GT35r's output air temps are pretty low.
Clearly the combo of these few parts work very well.
I will post more as I do more testing.
MODS" (yes all four)
AMS GT35R TURBO KIT
DEATSCHWERKS 850CC TOPFEEDS
UEL 4-1 HEADER
COBB apV2 - Tuned by myself of course
Still stock but to be upgraded
Stock Catback
Stock Intercooler
Stock Fuel Pump
Stock Longblock w/tgv's
Stock Clutch
I am sorry about my crappy pics all I had was my phone
Doug W.
TopSpeed Inc.
.Last edited by MOREPSiTEHBETT4; Jul 28, 2009 at 09:26 AM.
Jul 28, 2009, 09:54 AM
#97
hey juan, this is my other screename...i think you know me better by soon2bblackongold
and I would just like to really ask you, why are you spouting off bad info???? We can spoool a 35r wayyy faster than almost 5000rpm which you first stated...it's closer to late 3000 then to high 4000's bro..where is your rounding skills at
many many guys hit 15-16psi on the street at 3,300rpm and ~21psi at 3800rpm
we don't run north of 30lbs of boost so our peak boost can be at ~4200rpm but it's still not nearly as bad as you were saying. Your numbers you spewed up were embarassing and I can't sit by and let you attest to something that's not true
here's a very good spooling 2.5 liter ej257, might be built and might be one of the better spooling..but it's still a dyno graph that backs up more than your mouth...If the evo guy's see this, they will not think they have that large of an advantage, as they don't. Especially on the road coarse/auto x
and yes that's the oem top mount intercooler hooked up to a 35r and it's fine as reported by doug@topspeed
and I would just like to really ask you, why are you spouting off bad info???? We can spoool a 35r wayyy faster than almost 5000rpm which you first stated...it's closer to late 3000 then to high 4000's bro..where is your rounding skills at
many many guys hit 15-16psi on the street at 3,300rpm and ~21psi at 3800rpm
we don't run north of 30lbs of boost so our peak boost can be at ~4200rpm but it's still not nearly as bad as you were saying. Your numbers you spewed up were embarassing and I can't sit by and let you attest to something that's not true
here's a very good spooling 2.5 liter ej257, might be built and might be one of the better spooling..but it's still a dyno graph that backs up more than your mouth...If the evo guy's see this, they will not think they have that large of an advantage, as they don't. Especially on the road coarse/auto x
and yes that's the oem top mount intercooler hooked up to a 35r and it's fine as reported by doug@topspeed
My first post on this thread was back in January at the time I was not aware that 35R and REDs could spool that fast, thats why on the post that I made yesterday I explained that is possible to spool a 35R in the low 4000 rpm.
BUt there is no way that it will fully spool by 3600 as someone stated.
EDIT: I have seen the red STi in person, and the 35R is not garrett turbo, is a precision turbo. I wonder which one it is?
Last edited by juanmedina; Jul 28, 2009 at 10:01 AM.
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