Another one bite's the dust 850R again.
Feb 16, 2009, 06:10 PM
#46
Good point, 33psi on a HTA35R or a T4Z is little boost on pump 
. In general, if additional timing made more power than additional boost, Buschur wouldn't be running 33psi on pump gas.
850R's won't make over 700whp @ 30psi. Sorry.
Since you're outing Sean Ivey, you must be the resident tuning expert. Why don't you tune his car?
-To Shark, it might be advantageous to set your car up to log boost against exhaust backpressure. Im willing to bet your backpressure is sky high which is leading to your turbo failure. The turbo does look like you sucked something in, but since this is your 4th blown turbo, I'd start to look elsewhere.
. In general, if additional timing made more power than additional boost, Buschur wouldn't be running 33psi on pump gas.850R's won't make over 700whp @ 30psi. Sorry.
Since you're outing Sean Ivey, you must be the resident tuning expert. Why don't you tune his car?
-To Shark, it might be advantageous to set your car up to log boost against exhaust backpressure. Im willing to bet your backpressure is sky high which is leading to your turbo failure. The turbo does look like you sucked something in, but since this is your 4th blown turbo, I'd start to look elsewhere.
Feb 16, 2009, 06:13 PM
#47
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Feb 16, 2009, 06:37 PM
#48
Let me put it in a nutshell.
Turbos are designed to operate within a certain RPM window. You overspeed when you go too far to the right on the map, you surge it going to far to the left.
42-44psi on a 62mm turbo makes somewhat over 720 wheel hp, and 599ft lb torque on c16 on this car.
Here is the part that you guys are not understanding, this is not a 1/4 mile car. 44psi down the 1/4 mile is fine, it will take that all day.
The owner is going full throttle, with c16, 44psi, going up to 150MPH, then he hits it full blast from there and doesn't stop until the speedo is pointing vertically down to the ground. A 996 Porshe was trailing him the last time, and the porsche was at 185 MPH, and he was pulling away 20 cars infront of the Porsche.
Some of you guys won't get it (I didn't understand how he was doing this till he sat down and explained to me what he did in detail). This is what is happening, turbo is overspeeding for too long and it hits the housing, then the little pieces off the edge get sucked in. He needs a bigger turbo for that type of use, it cannot tolerate that type of use, IMHO.
Now for you 1/4 mile guys that just hold it for 10 sec carry on, this will not happen, the turbo will hold up fine for that, I don't have any other customers with this issue.
Last time I pulled the filter off myself I saw what the turbo looked like the only thing it has injested are edges of the blades.
Not an AMS issue, not a tuning issue, simply a design and intended usage issue.
They last for a while like this, then one day it fails during a run.
Sean
Turbos are designed to operate within a certain RPM window. You overspeed when you go too far to the right on the map, you surge it going to far to the left.
42-44psi on a 62mm turbo makes somewhat over 720 wheel hp, and 599ft lb torque on c16 on this car.
Here is the part that you guys are not understanding, this is not a 1/4 mile car. 44psi down the 1/4 mile is fine, it will take that all day.
The owner is going full throttle, with c16, 44psi, going up to 150MPH, then he hits it full blast from there and doesn't stop until the speedo is pointing vertically down to the ground. A 996 Porshe was trailing him the last time, and the porsche was at 185 MPH, and he was pulling away 20 cars infront of the Porsche.
Some of you guys won't get it (I didn't understand how he was doing this till he sat down and explained to me what he did in detail). This is what is happening, turbo is overspeeding for too long and it hits the housing, then the little pieces off the edge get sucked in. He needs a bigger turbo for that type of use, it cannot tolerate that type of use, IMHO.
Now for you 1/4 mile guys that just hold it for 10 sec carry on, this will not happen, the turbo will hold up fine for that, I don't have any other customers with this issue.
Last time I pulled the filter off myself I saw what the turbo looked like the only thing it has injested are edges of the blades.
Not an AMS issue, not a tuning issue, simply a design and intended usage issue.
They last for a while like this, then one day it fails during a run.
Sean
Last edited by Sean@Iveytune; Feb 18, 2009 at 07:54 PM.
Feb 16, 2009, 06:44 PM
#49
Let me put it in a nutshell.
Turbos are designed to operate within a certain RPM window. You overspeed when you go too far to the right on the map, you surge it going to far to the left.
42-44psi on a 62mm turbo makes somewhat over 720 wheel hp, and 599ft lb torque on c16 on this car.
Here is the part that you guys are not understanding, this is not a 1/4 mile car. 44psi down the 1/4 mile is fine, it will take that all day.
The owner is going on the highway, with c16, 44psi, going up to 150MPH, then he hits it full blast from there and doesn't stop until the speedo is pointing vertically down to the ground. A 996 Porshe was trailing him the last time, and the porsche was at 185 MPH, and he was pulling away 20 cars infront of the Porsche.
You guys don't ****ing get it. This is what is happening, turbo is overspeeding for too long and it hits the housing, then the little pieces off the edge get sucked in. He needs a bigger turbo for that type of use, it cannot tolerate that type of use.
Now for you 1/4 mile guys that just hold it for 10 sec carry on, you won't get it, the turbo will hold up fine for that.
Last time I pulled the filter off myself I see what the turbo looks like the onl,y thing it has injested are edges of the blades.
Not an AMS issue, not a tuning issue, simply a design and intended usage issue.
They last for a while like this, then one day it fails during a run.
Sean
Turbos are designed to operate within a certain RPM window. You overspeed when you go too far to the right on the map, you surge it going to far to the left.
42-44psi on a 62mm turbo makes somewhat over 720 wheel hp, and 599ft lb torque on c16 on this car.
Here is the part that you guys are not understanding, this is not a 1/4 mile car. 44psi down the 1/4 mile is fine, it will take that all day.
The owner is going on the highway, with c16, 44psi, going up to 150MPH, then he hits it full blast from there and doesn't stop until the speedo is pointing vertically down to the ground. A 996 Porshe was trailing him the last time, and the porsche was at 185 MPH, and he was pulling away 20 cars infront of the Porsche.
You guys don't ****ing get it. This is what is happening, turbo is overspeeding for too long and it hits the housing, then the little pieces off the edge get sucked in. He needs a bigger turbo for that type of use, it cannot tolerate that type of use.
Now for you 1/4 mile guys that just hold it for 10 sec carry on, you won't get it, the turbo will hold up fine for that.
Last time I pulled the filter off myself I see what the turbo looks like the onl,y thing it has injested are edges of the blades.
Not an AMS issue, not a tuning issue, simply a design and intended usage issue.
They last for a while like this, then one day it fails during a run.
Sean
Feb 16, 2009, 06:47 PM
#50
I was road racing my turbo miata, following closely another car, when my turbo died. You can see in the pictures the damage was quite similar to what you saw. Upon close inspection, my air filter had a tiny opening (2 mms), enough to swallow some dust and sand particles raised by the car in front in a dirty corner of the track. At 50.000rpms, you don´t need something big to destroy the blades.
Feb 16, 2009, 06:48 PM
#51
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Let me put it in a nutshell.
Turbos are designed to operate within a certain RPM window. You overspeed when you go too far to the right on the map, you surge it going to far to the left.
42-44psi on a 62mm turbo makes somewhat over 720 wheel hp, and 599ft lb torque on c16 on this car.
Here is the part that you guys are not understanding, this is not a 1/4 mile car. 44psi down the 1/4 mile is fine, it will take that all day.
The owner is going on the highway, with c16, 44psi, going up to 150MPH, then he hits it full blast from there and doesn't stop until the speedo is pointing vertically down to the ground. A 996 Porshe was trailing him the last time, and the porsche was at 185 MPH, and he was pulling away 20 cars infront of the Porsche.
You guys don't ****ing get it. This is what is happening, turbo is overspeeding for too long and it hits the housing, then the little pieces off the edge get sucked in. He needs a bigger turbo for that type of use, it cannot tolerate that type of use.
Now for you 1/4 mile guys that just hold it for 10 sec carry on, you won't get it, the turbo will hold up fine for that.
Last time I pulled the filter off myself I see what the turbo looks like the onl,y thing it has injested are edges of the blades.
Not an AMS issue, not a tuning issue, simply a design and intended usage issue.
Sean
Turbos are designed to operate within a certain RPM window. You overspeed when you go too far to the right on the map, you surge it going to far to the left.
42-44psi on a 62mm turbo makes somewhat over 720 wheel hp, and 599ft lb torque on c16 on this car.
Here is the part that you guys are not understanding, this is not a 1/4 mile car. 44psi down the 1/4 mile is fine, it will take that all day.
The owner is going on the highway, with c16, 44psi, going up to 150MPH, then he hits it full blast from there and doesn't stop until the speedo is pointing vertically down to the ground. A 996 Porshe was trailing him the last time, and the porsche was at 185 MPH, and he was pulling away 20 cars infront of the Porsche.
You guys don't ****ing get it. This is what is happening, turbo is overspeeding for too long and it hits the housing, then the little pieces off the edge get sucked in. He needs a bigger turbo for that type of use, it cannot tolerate that type of use.
Now for you 1/4 mile guys that just hold it for 10 sec carry on, you won't get it, the turbo will hold up fine for that.
Last time I pulled the filter off myself I see what the turbo looks like the onl,y thing it has injested are edges of the blades.
Not an AMS issue, not a tuning issue, simply a design and intended usage issue.
Sean
Couldn't have said it better myself. I personally haven't seen really any of these "high flowing, small packaging" turbos hold up when run like this. 650+whp is where i really suggest stepping up to something larger and twinscroll. Making 800+ on a t3 is cool i guess, but ehhh...
Feb 16, 2009, 06:56 PM
#52
Yes i have heard MR. Sharkbite is a 1 Mile Warrior not 1/4 mile Warrior.. I am going to guess you hit the nail on the head Sean.. He is over spinning it for a long period of time constant.. We have run 49psi of boost with the same compressor but its actually only for probably 6-7 seconds at time considering 1st gear doesnt see that boost level on our 8.98et RS..
Sharkbite needs a larger frame turbo probably..
Mike
Sharkbite needs a larger frame turbo probably..
Mike
Feb 16, 2009, 07:06 PM
#54
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Let me put it in a nutshell.
Turbos are designed to operate within a certain RPM window. You overspeed when you go too far to the right on the map, you surge it going to far to the left.
42-44psi on a 62mm turbo makes somewhat over 720 wheel hp, and 599ft lb torque on c16 on this car.
Here is the part that you guys are not understanding, this is not a 1/4 mile car. 44psi down the 1/4 mile is fine, it will take that all day.
The owner is going on the highway, with c16, 44psi, going up to 150MPH, then he hits it full blast from there and doesn't stop until the speedo is pointing vertically down to the ground. A 996 Porshe was trailing him the last time, and the porsche was at 185 MPH, and he was pulling away 20 cars infront of the Porsche.
Some of you guys won't get it, let me give you the background. This is what is happening, turbo is overspeeding for too long and it hits the housing, then the little pieces off the edge get sucked in. He needs a bigger turbo for that type of use, it cannot tolerate that type of use, IMHO.
Now for you 1/4 mile guys that just hold it for 10 sec carry on, you won't get it, the turbo will hold up fine for that.
Last time I pulled the filter off myself I see what the turbo looks like the onl,y thing it has injested are edges of the blades.
Not an AMS issue, not a tuning issue, simply a design and intended usage issue.
They last for a while like this, then one day it fails during a run.
Sean
Turbos are designed to operate within a certain RPM window. You overspeed when you go too far to the right on the map, you surge it going to far to the left.
42-44psi on a 62mm turbo makes somewhat over 720 wheel hp, and 599ft lb torque on c16 on this car.
Here is the part that you guys are not understanding, this is not a 1/4 mile car. 44psi down the 1/4 mile is fine, it will take that all day.
The owner is going on the highway, with c16, 44psi, going up to 150MPH, then he hits it full blast from there and doesn't stop until the speedo is pointing vertically down to the ground. A 996 Porshe was trailing him the last time, and the porsche was at 185 MPH, and he was pulling away 20 cars infront of the Porsche.
Some of you guys won't get it, let me give you the background. This is what is happening, turbo is overspeeding for too long and it hits the housing, then the little pieces off the edge get sucked in. He needs a bigger turbo for that type of use, it cannot tolerate that type of use, IMHO.
Now for you 1/4 mile guys that just hold it for 10 sec carry on, you won't get it, the turbo will hold up fine for that.
Last time I pulled the filter off myself I see what the turbo looks like the onl,y thing it has injested are edges of the blades.
Not an AMS issue, not a tuning issue, simply a design and intended usage issue.
They last for a while like this, then one day it fails during a run.
Sean
Feb 16, 2009, 07:08 PM
#55
I will allow those who are experts in turbo applications to give a more specific answer in regards to this.
Sean
Feb 16, 2009, 07:24 PM
#56
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LOL thats awesome, I bet cops dont even bother with trying to light that guy up haha. Even if they did have a radio by the time they got done calling it in, thats 3 exits down the highway lol. Need some videos man haha but you need to do it in mexico 
Feb 16, 2009, 07:27 PM
#57
If this turbo is showing a repetitive pattern of compressor destruction when abused for prolonged periods (and overspeeding does constitute abuse), it could be that the excess compressor speed subjects the tip of those thin billet blades to a substantial amount of force as the edge of the blade churns against the air mass. If this is the cause, it's the air mass itself that applies resistance to the edge of the blade, and if that resistance becomes excessive, it can peel the edge of the blade just as one can peel back the edge of a can lid.
Feb 16, 2009, 07:28 PM
#58
wow, does anyone have any videos of these races they can PM me with? I know you can't post those up on here for obvious reasons.
Good luck with the new turbo hunt Sharkbite
Good luck with the new turbo hunt Sharkbite
Feb 16, 2009, 07:40 PM
#59
If this turbo is showing a repetitive pattern of compressor destruction when abused for prolonged periods (and overspeeding does constitute abuse), it could be that the excess compressor speed subjects the tip of those thin billet blades to a substantial amount of force as the edge of the blade churns against the air mass. If this is the cause, it's the air mass itself that applies resistance to the edge of the blade, and if that resistance becomes excessive, it can peel the edge of the blade just as one can peel back the edge of a can lid.
Mike
