CamShafts
Feb 25, 2009, 05:29 PM
#16
That's a loaded question, those duration numbers seem to be subjective based on the lift and ramp rate of the cam, its best to look at dyno charts of cars with like mods to yours to get the idea of what to expect, or ask a tuners advice on the best cam for what you want. In theory, a cam with less duration will give you more low end power over high rpm power, but that does not always seem to be the case with the dyno results and tuner opnions on here.
To answer your other question, when someone says 280/280, they are refering to first the intake cam duration, then the exhaust cam duration... therefore if someone says they're running 272/280, that means they have a cam with an adveritised duration of 272 on the intake side, while the exhaust cam is one with a 280 duration. Basically they've mixed and matched a set.
To answer your other question, when someone says 280/280, they are refering to first the intake cam duration, then the exhaust cam duration... therefore if someone says they're running 272/280, that means they have a cam with an adveritised duration of 272 on the intake side, while the exhaust cam is one with a 280 duration. Basically they've mixed and matched a set.
In theory the duration will move the powerband, but of course its more complicated than that. Depending on the mods and mix of cam duration, lift, and ramp rate can drastically change the results. There is no "magic" cam, best is to suit you needs with other's similar modifications and results to your liking.
This is why it is best to consult tuners like AMS and BR because they have alot of experience to help with various setups.
Feb 26, 2009, 06:08 AM
#17
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA , CAL
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Feb 26, 2009, 06:23 AM
#18
Evolving Member
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: DFW, Tx
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Springs are not required, but strongly suggested... and it much easier to do it at the same time as the cams if you are at all thinking about doing it in the future, and I would say most installers would give you a break if you are doing springs and cams at the same time....
The springs with kelfords has been covered 1000 times, just do a little searching.
As for this topic... I tend to lean toward a higher lift lower duration cam.... Very fond of the Kelfords on my car... I have had them on my personal car with the stocker and the fp red and I couldn't ask for a better over all feel for the car... very responsive on both, and noticeable gains. I have also seen them 35rs, and they performed excellent. as I said earlier is a very well rounded cam for the street and track.
Feb 27, 2009, 10:06 AM
#19
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA , CAL
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Go with the Kelfords... they are a very well rounded cam. Good for both stock and large turbos.
Springs are not required, but strongly suggested... and it much easier to do it at the same time as the cams if you are at all thinking about doing it in the future, and I would say most installers would give you a break if you are doing springs and cams at the same time....
The springs with kelfords has been covered 1000 times, just do a little searching.
As for this topic... I tend to lean toward a higher lift lower duration cam.... Very fond of the Kelfords on my car... I have had them on my personal car with the stocker and the fp red and I couldn't ask for a better over all feel for the car... very responsive on both, and noticeable gains. I have also seen them 35rs, and they performed excellent. as I said earlier is a very well rounded cam for the street and track.
Springs are not required, but strongly suggested... and it much easier to do it at the same time as the cams if you are at all thinking about doing it in the future, and I would say most installers would give you a break if you are doing springs and cams at the same time....
The springs with kelfords has been covered 1000 times, just do a little searching.
As for this topic... I tend to lean toward a higher lift lower duration cam.... Very fond of the Kelfords on my car... I have had them on my personal car with the stocker and the fp red and I couldn't ask for a better over all feel for the car... very responsive on both, and noticeable gains. I have also seen them 35rs, and they performed excellent. as I said earlier is a very well rounded cam for the street and track.
Feb 27, 2009, 02:11 PM
#20
Evolved Member
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Thornton CO
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
springs and retainers are usually together as sets.
"lopping" refers to the way your idle will sound. Very "loppy" cars....think of a big V8 or a top fuel. The idle isn't smooth like say a Camry that just makes a nice even engine note. Lopey will be more like a blop-blop-blopblop-blop kind of sound while idling. Once your car is moving and the engine speed increases the lope goes away. Some people love the sound of loppy cams, some people want a smoother idle.
cams are a big choice on a car, so do as much research as you can looking for cars here that have similar mods as yours and the cams you are looking at. Some cams will give you big top end high RPM power, but may sacrifice low-end power and drivability. Other milder cams will give you a broader range of power, meaning more even torque throughout the powerband. This can mean better response in the lower RPM's and generally, easier to drive on the street. A lot of people seem to be moving away from the smaller 260 class of cams (258, 260, 264) because its been found that a lot of the 270 class of cams (270, 272, 274) give you top end gains and might not sacrifice low end power.
Looks like you're pretty new, so a basic thing to remember when modding your EVO, there will ALWAYS be a compromise when adding parts. Big cam/big turbo cars make huge top end drag racing power but you will lose the easy to drive around performance (sometimes) plus you might need to improve your engine to run higher RPM's to take advantage of the bigger turbo. Example would be using a 37R or bigger, and wanting to be able to rev to 9000rpms (sometimes higher). Small turbo/small cam cars are great for street, road racing and autocross....but you're power will start to drop sooner in the RPM's, and you likely won't be revving as high. Stock replacement turbos like the White/Green/BBK/Tomei ARMS and such, will spool faster and make peak torque sooner, but just don't have the top end power.
Lots to learn on this board. The search button at the top of the topic pages is your friend. You really need to have a good idea BEFORE you start modding, as to what you want to do with your car, and then start building in the right direction.
Welcome aboard
"lopping" refers to the way your idle will sound. Very "loppy" cars....think of a big V8 or a top fuel. The idle isn't smooth like say a Camry that just makes a nice even engine note. Lopey will be more like a blop-blop-blopblop-blop kind of sound while idling. Once your car is moving and the engine speed increases the lope goes away. Some people love the sound of loppy cams, some people want a smoother idle.
cams are a big choice on a car, so do as much research as you can looking for cars here that have similar mods as yours and the cams you are looking at. Some cams will give you big top end high RPM power, but may sacrifice low-end power and drivability. Other milder cams will give you a broader range of power, meaning more even torque throughout the powerband. This can mean better response in the lower RPM's and generally, easier to drive on the street. A lot of people seem to be moving away from the smaller 260 class of cams (258, 260, 264) because its been found that a lot of the 270 class of cams (270, 272, 274) give you top end gains and might not sacrifice low end power.
Looks like you're pretty new, so a basic thing to remember when modding your EVO, there will ALWAYS be a compromise when adding parts. Big cam/big turbo cars make huge top end drag racing power but you will lose the easy to drive around performance (sometimes) plus you might need to improve your engine to run higher RPM's to take advantage of the bigger turbo. Example would be using a 37R or bigger, and wanting to be able to rev to 9000rpms (sometimes higher). Small turbo/small cam cars are great for street, road racing and autocross....but you're power will start to drop sooner in the RPM's, and you likely won't be revving as high. Stock replacement turbos like the White/Green/BBK/Tomei ARMS and such, will spool faster and make peak torque sooner, but just don't have the top end power.
Lots to learn on this board. The search button at the top of the topic pages is your friend. You really need to have a good idea BEFORE you start modding, as to what you want to do with your car, and then start building in the right direction.
Welcome aboard
Feb 28, 2009, 10:29 AM
#21
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA , CAL
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
springs and retainers are usually together as sets.
"lopping" refers to the way your idle will sound. Very "loppy" cars....think of a big V8 or a top fuel. The idle isn't smooth like say a Camry that just makes a nice even engine note. Lopey will be more like a blop-blop-blopblop-blop kind of sound while idling. Once your car is moving and the engine speed increases the lope goes away. Some people love the sound of loppy cams, some people want a smoother idle.
cams are a big choice on a car, so do as much research as you can looking for cars here that have similar mods as yours and the cams you are looking at. Some cams will give you big top end high RPM power, but may sacrifice low-end power and drivability. Other milder cams will give you a broader range of power, meaning more even torque throughout the powerband. This can mean better response in the lower RPM's and generally, easier to drive on the street. A lot of people seem to be moving away from the smaller 260 class of cams (258, 260, 264) because its been found that a lot of the 270 class of cams (270, 272, 274) give you top end gains and might not sacrifice low end power.
Looks like you're pretty new, so a basic thing to remember when modding your EVO, there will ALWAYS be a compromise when adding parts. Big cam/big turbo cars make huge top end drag racing power but you will lose the easy to drive around performance (sometimes) plus you might need to improve your engine to run higher RPM's to take advantage of the bigger turbo. Example would be using a 37R or bigger, and wanting to be able to rev to 9000rpms (sometimes higher). Small turbo/small cam cars are great for street, road racing and autocross....but you're power will start to drop sooner in the RPM's, and you likely won't be revving as high. Stock replacement turbos like the White/Green/BBK/Tomei ARMS and such, will spool faster and make peak torque sooner, but just don't have the top end power.
Lots to learn on this board. The search button at the top of the topic pages is your friend. You really need to have a good idea BEFORE you start modding, as to what you want to do with your car, and then start building in the right direction.
Welcome aboard
"lopping" refers to the way your idle will sound. Very "loppy" cars....think of a big V8 or a top fuel. The idle isn't smooth like say a Camry that just makes a nice even engine note. Lopey will be more like a blop-blop-blopblop-blop kind of sound while idling. Once your car is moving and the engine speed increases the lope goes away. Some people love the sound of loppy cams, some people want a smoother idle.
cams are a big choice on a car, so do as much research as you can looking for cars here that have similar mods as yours and the cams you are looking at. Some cams will give you big top end high RPM power, but may sacrifice low-end power and drivability. Other milder cams will give you a broader range of power, meaning more even torque throughout the powerband. This can mean better response in the lower RPM's and generally, easier to drive on the street. A lot of people seem to be moving away from the smaller 260 class of cams (258, 260, 264) because its been found that a lot of the 270 class of cams (270, 272, 274) give you top end gains and might not sacrifice low end power.
Looks like you're pretty new, so a basic thing to remember when modding your EVO, there will ALWAYS be a compromise when adding parts. Big cam/big turbo cars make huge top end drag racing power but you will lose the easy to drive around performance (sometimes) plus you might need to improve your engine to run higher RPM's to take advantage of the bigger turbo. Example would be using a 37R or bigger, and wanting to be able to rev to 9000rpms (sometimes higher). Small turbo/small cam cars are great for street, road racing and autocross....but you're power will start to drop sooner in the RPM's, and you likely won't be revving as high. Stock replacement turbos like the White/Green/BBK/Tomei ARMS and such, will spool faster and make peak torque sooner, but just don't have the top end power.
Lots to learn on this board. The search button at the top of the topic pages is your friend. You really need to have a good idea BEFORE you start modding, as to what you want to do with your car, and then start building in the right direction.
Welcome aboard
thnx , idle looping ,i don't really like it that much because it sounds like the car is very old/been used alot(no offense to the ppl that like that sound
)......i really like the stock evo idle what kind of powerful cams can i get that has a smooth idle like that and louder.......im really just wanting to reach maybe MAX 400-450hp on stock turbomy list so far is
Greddy Turbo timer
Greddy Profec B
AEM Fuel / Air gauge
Greddy Ti-C Comp TBE
Injen intake w/upper & lower IC piping
AMS FMIC
Kelford or GSC S2 272 cams
ARP head studs
what else do you think i can add to that?
how much hp will that make with a tune?
Last edited by l EVO n; Feb 28, 2009 at 10:35 AM.
Feb 28, 2009, 10:44 AM
#23
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA , CAL
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Feb 28, 2009, 02:04 PM
#25
Evolved Member
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Thornton CO
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you may want to try a staggered set (different sized intake and exhaust cams) to get a bit smoother sound. Kelfords and Cosworth M2 (272) are pretty lopey, not sure about the GSC but someone else said they would be. These are all very aggressive big power cams however. For what you want, a milder cam might be in order, a lot of people seem to like the HKS and Brian Crowers. My tuner had Comp 280's on his car and they weren't too lopey either. Like I said in my first post, there will ALWAYS be a trade off, smooth idling cams might not make the best power, but the bigger power cams are going to have a rough idle.
400-450 is do-able on the IX turbo, but you're going to have to run some pretty big boost and a rather aggressive tune to get there. A ported stock manifold, 02 dump or big 02 housing, possible a porter throttle body and intake manifold, bigger cams...might be a few parts I'm missing in there. Oh yea, a Walbro 255 fuel pump and most likely injectors. Now to break that 400 mark you're going to need to do something fuel wise, regular pump just ain't gonna get you there safely. E85, race gas or meth injection. Your injectors will depend on your fuel needs. You'll need the biggest injectors for E85, smaller for race fuel and smaller still for meth. E85 you'll probably be looking at 1000-1200cc. Your car will react differently to each one of these fuel types/additives, your best bet is to find the best tuner you can in your area (in Cali if you're close enough maybe Razorlab? He posts on here a lot) and ask him what he suggests. You can get a million different answers and ideas on this board, but the person whose opinion should matter the most is going to be the guy who is pulling your build together with a tune, he will have the best mod path for you to take as he has most likely tuned MANY cars in YOUR area with the fuels available.
400-450 is do-able on the IX turbo, but you're going to have to run some pretty big boost and a rather aggressive tune to get there. A ported stock manifold, 02 dump or big 02 housing, possible a porter throttle body and intake manifold, bigger cams...might be a few parts I'm missing in there. Oh yea, a Walbro 255 fuel pump and most likely injectors. Now to break that 400 mark you're going to need to do something fuel wise, regular pump just ain't gonna get you there safely. E85, race gas or meth injection. Your injectors will depend on your fuel needs. You'll need the biggest injectors for E85, smaller for race fuel and smaller still for meth. E85 you'll probably be looking at 1000-1200cc. Your car will react differently to each one of these fuel types/additives, your best bet is to find the best tuner you can in your area (in Cali if you're close enough maybe Razorlab? He posts on here a lot) and ask him what he suggests. You can get a million different answers and ideas on this board, but the person whose opinion should matter the most is going to be the guy who is pulling your build together with a tune, he will have the best mod path for you to take as he has most likely tuned MANY cars in YOUR area with the fuels available.
Feb 28, 2009, 03:55 PM
#26
wow i just learned more about cams, your not the only one bro i got u, but i bought myself a set of kelford 272/272, valve springs and retainners,getting head ported/polished,walbro 255 fuel pump,880 cc injectors,fp red on its way
, tuned on 93, roughly 25 psi,stock bottom end, i should be easy 450 to the wheel.... cant wait to get my car back....
, tuned on 93, roughly 25 psi,stock bottom end, i should be easy 450 to the wheel.... cant wait to get my car back....
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
