my intake cam snapped?!!?
Mar 14, 2009, 01:40 PM
#153
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When I sent them the email earlier in the week I also did. The guy who responded was very polite and sounded truly concerned about the issue.
Please if you have Kelford, GSC S2 or Cosworth cams post your milage, your date of purchase and date of installation!!!
Please if you have Kelford, GSC S2 or Cosworth cams post your milage, your date of purchase and date of installation!!!
Mar 14, 2009, 03:06 PM
#155
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ive got TNT's broken cam here, as well as a brand new kelford, and a brand FP4R cam all here right now. as soon as we are done putting TNTs motor back together i'll post the pictures.
Mar 14, 2009, 03:24 PM
#157
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A better plan of action rather than suggesting everyone pull their cams (which I think is a really poor idea) is find out when the ones that failed were made. I would have very little issue suggesting I have revved mine higher than most people and I have run S1s and S2s without any issues for a year and half on the S1s and a year on the S2s.
I would be interested to know what if anything has been modified to the damper systems of these cars, timing belt tensioner, belt used, and as closely as possible what rpms these were seeing on a regular basis. I am curious on a non technical basis of all the individuals who are posting about the metallurgy what your education, engineering, metallurgical backgrounds are as well. Seems like there are some heavy handed statements being made without material science backing it up.
I would be interested to know what if anything has been modified to the damper systems of these cars, timing belt tensioner, belt used, and as closely as possible what rpms these were seeing on a regular basis. I am curious on a non technical basis of all the individuals who are posting about the metallurgy what your education, engineering, metallurgical backgrounds are as well. Seems like there are some heavy handed statements being made without material science backing it up.
personally i work in the defense industry for a missile defense program. i do computer simulation.one interesting thing, when we ordered TNT's cams from ETS (at the time i didn't sell parts), it took a long time to get the cams. ETS gave use GSCs contact information for who took the order. GSC, said its taking a little while because "we have a new S2 design" and "your going to get one from the first batch". if that means anything, the cams were installed on TNTs car on october 4th, the cams were recieved shortly (within a week) before that, and ordered quite a while before that (as mentioned we waited over a month for them). i have the reciept if anyone needs to see it.
Boosters kelfords were installed sometime around september 27th (thats what i have on my reciept for him). not sure when or where he purchased them from because he did that on his own.
I'll still run Kelfords in my 8 without hesitation but it will take a lot more than one post and a bunch of worth of mouth "stories" of cams breaking to put me off the 9 cams.
I'm good friends with one of the largest Kelford distributors in the US and they've sold over 300 sets of the 9 272's in the past 6 months and haven't had one return or defective cam yet. Those numbers aren't speculation based on actual sales numbers, not what I heard from some guy on forum.
I'm good friends with one of the largest Kelford distributors in the US and they've sold over 300 sets of the 9 272's in the past 6 months and haven't had one return or defective cam yet. Those numbers aren't speculation based on actual sales numbers, not what I heard from some guy on forum.
i've installed hundreds of cams in evos in the past 3 years. i've seen a number of weird things like a comp cam with the threads for the exhaust cam angle sensor not drilled/tapped deep enough, brian crower sent eclipse cams in place of evo cams, etc etc etc.... i always install everything exactly to spec, torque specs, and double check everything.
and to say these are all originating from DFW is silly. read the posts they are happening coast to coast. i would think this is an isolated batch of cam blanks that suck, as noted by when TNT and boosters cams were installed.
Mar 14, 2009, 03:30 PM
#158
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i'm a mechanical engineer as well. don't have material science background like a few others, but i did go to class, did my homework, and learned what i needed to know personally i work in the defense industry for a missile defense program. i do computer simulation.
one interesting thing, when we ordered TNT's cams from ETS (at the time i didn't sell parts), it took a long time to get the cams. ETS gave use GSCs contact information for who took the order. GSC, said its taking a little while because "we have a new S2 design" and "your going to get one from the first batch". if that means anything, the cams were installed on TNTs car on october 4th, the cams were recieved shortly (within a week) before that, and ordered quite a while before that (as mentioned we waited over a month for them). i have the reciept if anyone needs to see it.
Boosters kelfords were installed sometime around september 27th (thats what i have on my reciept for him). not sure when or where he purchased them from because he did that on his own.
your friend isn't telling you everything then because i ordered a set of kelford 272 for addition24 from MAperformance. the cams when we opened the box was broken on a lobe. it was obviously a shipping or packaging issues. kelford is the only company i know of that shipps both cams in one box with nothing seperating the cams. i sent the broken cam back to MAP and they said it was warrantyed by kelford. since that incident i have noticed kelford cams have come in two boxes, or in one box with a cardboard seperator.
i've installed hundreds of cams in evos in the past 3 years. i've seen a number of weird things like a comp cam with the threads for the exhaust cam angle sensor not drilled/tapped deep enough, brian crower sent eclipse cams in place of evo cams, etc etc etc.... i always install everything exactly to spec, torque specs, and double check everything.
and to say these are all originating from DFW is silly. read the posts they are happening coast to coast. i would think this is an isolated batch of cam blanks that suck, as noted by when TNT and boosters cams were installed.
personally i work in the defense industry for a missile defense program. i do computer simulation.one interesting thing, when we ordered TNT's cams from ETS (at the time i didn't sell parts), it took a long time to get the cams. ETS gave use GSCs contact information for who took the order. GSC, said its taking a little while because "we have a new S2 design" and "your going to get one from the first batch". if that means anything, the cams were installed on TNTs car on october 4th, the cams were recieved shortly (within a week) before that, and ordered quite a while before that (as mentioned we waited over a month for them). i have the reciept if anyone needs to see it.
Boosters kelfords were installed sometime around september 27th (thats what i have on my reciept for him). not sure when or where he purchased them from because he did that on his own.
your friend isn't telling you everything then because i ordered a set of kelford 272 for addition24 from MAperformance. the cams when we opened the box was broken on a lobe. it was obviously a shipping or packaging issues. kelford is the only company i know of that shipps both cams in one box with nothing seperating the cams. i sent the broken cam back to MAP and they said it was warrantyed by kelford. since that incident i have noticed kelford cams have come in two boxes, or in one box with a cardboard seperator.
i've installed hundreds of cams in evos in the past 3 years. i've seen a number of weird things like a comp cam with the threads for the exhaust cam angle sensor not drilled/tapped deep enough, brian crower sent eclipse cams in place of evo cams, etc etc etc.... i always install everything exactly to spec, torque specs, and double check everything.
and to say these are all originating from DFW is silly. read the posts they are happening coast to coast. i would think this is an isolated batch of cam blanks that suck, as noted by when TNT and boosters cams were installed.
Kevid I hope your "bad batch" theory is correct. I find it interesting what you are pointing out about Kelford's packaging, when I got mine both came in the same box, but where separated by a piece of cardboard, I didn't know that before that there was nothing separating the cams.
I also want to ask you do you see or have you seen any obvious difference in the area of the oiling groove of the MIVEC intake cam, between the GSC's, Kelford's and FP's cams?
Thanks in advanced for the response!!!
Mar 14, 2009, 04:33 PM
#159
I think you may have misunderstood when I mentioned DFW, it seems thats where the cars first started exhibiting the problems and there have been others since. Thats why I had asked about batch dates/order dates because I suspected a possible group buy. If that had been the case it would be alot easier to figure out. Since thats not the case then back to square one on that theory.
I first heard of the problems from FP, which is in McKinney from a customer that was also in Texas. Thats why I had even formulated anything remotely close to that initial idea.
Oh well
I first heard of the problems from FP, which is in McKinney from a customer that was also in Texas. Thats why I had even formulated anything remotely close to that initial idea.
Oh well
Mar 14, 2009, 05:31 PM
#160
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So far i've read that 3 out of the 4 broken cams (I could have missed the last one) were purchased in August/September 2008. That is definitely leading me more towards a batch issue. So much so that I'll be putting my S2s into the new motor this week.
Mar 14, 2009, 05:41 PM
#162
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I sent kelford an email as well i bought a set of 280/272 mivec cams from ets on Feb.3 09.
I'm just about to finish the build and I'm wondering if i should get different cams I hate to mess this freshly built engine up.
I'm just about to finish the build and I'm wondering if i should get different cams I hate to mess this freshly built engine up.
Mar 14, 2009, 07:04 PM
#163
purchase dates are important but what about the sets that were sitting for awhile after being made then were purchased. for example a set of cams that were made in january then purchased in september. is that a possiblilty? i know that GSC's were somewhat flying off the shelves but what about the rest?
Mar 14, 2009, 07:08 PM
#164
There should be some casting information on the blanks that can be used. Paperwork can be followed backwards relatively easy. Purchaser to Purchaser, etc. We had to go through this when we were faced with tire recalls for the last company I worked for. Its a pain but not impossible.
