bbk vs. fp red vs. tomei arms for stock block pump w/meth
Mar 27, 2009, 06:00 AM
#61
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So I understand running the Red at high boost can make enough power to make the stock block fail, but at 28psi on meth would it be too much power?
Mar 27, 2009, 06:13 AM
#62
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My understanding that the BBK is more in between a Green and a Red- am I mistaken? The thing holding me back from a Red (aside from wait time and the awesome customer service at CBRD) is that my setup may make too much power for the stock block to handle being at 28psi on meth on a Red.
Mar 27, 2009, 06:24 AM
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I don't understand why PSI is a requirement. Don't get me wrong boost is good and all but it really is about your tune in conjunction with boost, you want to get timing, fuel trims, and knock out of the way. The way I see it boost is a helper to get you into your sweet spot, and as cool as carrying 28psi over a certain amount of RPMS sounds, it may not be the best setup for your application.
Meth cars are decent with the right setup but all you need is that one sensor to fail and boom there goes your motor. Why not run something safe until you can afford to have the block honed, forged pistons, and crankshaft installed then go the 28psi route. From my experience overstressing any material or pushing it to its maximum tensile strength will not yield a reliable lifespan, of course there are exceptions.
I know of a certain Lexus that fried plugs consistently because he needed 500whp, the car also started knocking. Mod for stability don't mod for bragging rights, no one will care when the motor pops; well you may get a lot of people going ohhhhhh but then your 15 min of fame is gone. Drop boost to 25 psi, build the motor and then up the boost. Is your head ported?
Meth cars are decent with the right setup but all you need is that one sensor to fail and boom there goes your motor. Why not run something safe until you can afford to have the block honed, forged pistons, and crankshaft installed then go the 28psi route. From my experience overstressing any material or pushing it to its maximum tensile strength will not yield a reliable lifespan, of course there are exceptions.
I know of a certain Lexus that fried plugs consistently because he needed 500whp, the car also started knocking. Mod for stability don't mod for bragging rights, no one will care when the motor pops; well you may get a lot of people going ohhhhhh but then your 15 min of fame is gone. Drop boost to 25 psi, build the motor and then up the boost. Is your head ported?
Mar 27, 2009, 06:35 AM
#64
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Interesting advise, but I randomly just read in another thread that you blew up your motor....
...thats exactly what I am try NOT to do, hence why I am afraid to go with a red at 28psi, and definitely why I refuse to go bigger.
No offense, but I would like to hear about which turbo would would better for a stock block/all bolt-on/28psi w/meth setup... and getting the most power possible safely without comprimising my motor.... which is my concern with a Red.
...thats exactly what I am try NOT to do, hence why I am afraid to go with a red at 28psi, and definitely why I refuse to go bigger.
No offense, but I would like to hear about which turbo would would better for a stock block/all bolt-on/28psi w/meth setup... and getting the most power possible safely without comprimising my motor.... which is my concern with a Red.
Mar 27, 2009, 06:46 AM
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I don't understand why PSI is a requirement. Don't get me wrong boost is good and all but it really is about your tune in conjunction with boost, you want to get timing, fuel trims, and knock out of the way. The way I see it boost is a helper to get you into your sweet spot, and as cool as carrying 28psi over a certain amount of RPMS sounds, it may not be the best setup for your application.
Meth cars are decent with the right setup but all you need is that one sensor to fail and boom there goes your motor. Why not run something safe until you can afford to have the block honed, forged pistons, and crankshaft installed then go the 28psi route. From my experience overstressing any material or pushing it to its maximum tensile strength will not yield a reliable lifespan, of course there are exceptions.
I know of a certain Lexus that fried plugs consistently because he needed 500whp, the car also started knocking. Mod for stability don't mod for bragging rights, no one will care when the motor pops; well you may get a lot of people going ohhhhhh but then your 15 min of fame is gone. Drop boost to 25 psi, build the motor and then up the boost. Is your head ported?
Meth cars are decent with the right setup but all you need is that one sensor to fail and boom there goes your motor. Why not run something safe until you can afford to have the block honed, forged pistons, and crankshaft installed then go the 28psi route. From my experience overstressing any material or pushing it to its maximum tensile strength will not yield a reliable lifespan, of course there are exceptions.
I know of a certain Lexus that fried plugs consistently because he needed 500whp, the car also started knocking. Mod for stability don't mod for bragging rights, no one will care when the motor pops; well you may get a lot of people going ohhhhhh but then your 15 min of fame is gone. Drop boost to 25 psi, build the motor and then up the boost. Is your head ported?
Head is not ported- 28psi is not a requirement, just want to stay at that level or below since I am on stock block. I figured with a meth kit that has a failsafe built in I can run that kind of boost if I want to. I have a whp goal for the car which is 400-450, and I want that power to be reliable- although I know it would be dependant upon my failsafe working correctly, which is the case with most people running meth kits. If that psi is too high/tune too aggressive to reach those numbers with a BBK I would like to know! Thats the reson I posted this thread. If I would be better off with a Red tuned for 25-26 psi to reach those numbers, I would like to know as well. I want to max out my stock block while keeping the setup reliable as well.
Maybe the question I should be asking is this: with a good tune and my mods, what turbo AND boost level is required to maximize my stock block setup, getting the most power that is safe to run, and what whp number would that be?
Last edited by DJ Brett B; Apr 3, 2009 at 05:13 PM.
Mar 27, 2009, 07:03 AM
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I'm going to just re-ask this, because these are the real answers that I seek when considering these turbos:
With a good tune and my mods (listed in first post):
1.) what turbo AND 2.) what boost level is required to maximize my stock block setup, getting the MOST power that is SAFE to run, and 3.) what whp number would that be?
With a good tune and my mods (listed in first post):
1.) what turbo AND 2.) what boost level is required to maximize my stock block setup, getting the MOST power that is SAFE to run, and 3.) what whp number would that be?
Last edited by DJ Brett B; Apr 3, 2009 at 05:13 PM.
Mar 27, 2009, 07:11 AM
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Then I think you best bet is to get your head ported, throw a red on at 25 lbs of boost that way you're flowing more air and making more power in addition to the turbine. 400 whp is doable without meth, and I'd say skip it quite honestly. what kind of dyno do you want to make this power on? Obviously a dynojet is going to yield higher numbers whereas a mustang dyno will not make as much power.
Last edited by Boostfiend; Mar 27, 2009 at 07:15 AM.
Mar 27, 2009, 07:19 AM
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Then I think you best bet is to get your head ported, throw a red on at 25 lbs of boost that way you're flowing more air and making more power in addition to the turbine. 400 who is doable without meth, and I'd say skip it quite honestly. what kind of dyno do you want to make this power on? Obviously a dynojet is going to yield higher numbers whereas a mustang dyno will not make as much power.
Mar 27, 2009, 03:39 PM
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Welllll as has been shown in other threads, the stock block is good for 500+hp with 35Rs, 30psi etc. It's all in the tune really.
Running 28psi shouldn't be a problem as long as your supporting mods are in place - cams, springs, retainers and ARP head studs. Also good to have the exhaust free flowing as possible - 02 housing, 3 inch downpipe, 3 inch tube right out the back of the car. I'd also put an upgraded FMIC, intake and hard upper and lower IC piping on the list of must-haves to handle all that power.
Then you just chuck on your Red (and fuel pump and injectors), find a good tuner and have at it.
I'm running 28psi on my CBRD BBK Lite with all of the above mods, am making around 380+ at the wheels and having zero issues so far...and a 0 knock tune to boot.
On pump.
I ran 28psi on my stock turbo for a whole year before getting the BBK with no issues as well. And I drive like a maniac - track, AutoX and daily driving.
Just get all the supporting mod on there and find a good tuner.
I'd also recommend skipping the meth really - just one more thing to go wrong and you don't want to be relying on that for your car not to go pop.
Running 28psi shouldn't be a problem as long as your supporting mods are in place - cams, springs, retainers and ARP head studs. Also good to have the exhaust free flowing as possible - 02 housing, 3 inch downpipe, 3 inch tube right out the back of the car. I'd also put an upgraded FMIC, intake and hard upper and lower IC piping on the list of must-haves to handle all that power.
Then you just chuck on your Red (and fuel pump and injectors), find a good tuner and have at it.
I'm running 28psi on my CBRD BBK Lite with all of the above mods, am making around 380+ at the wheels and having zero issues so far...and a 0 knock tune to boot.
On pump.
I ran 28psi on my stock turbo for a whole year before getting the BBK with no issues as well. And I drive like a maniac - track, AutoX and daily driving.
Just get all the supporting mod on there and find a good tuner.
I'd also recommend skipping the meth really - just one more thing to go wrong and you don't want to be relying on that for your car not to go pop.
Last edited by theshadow; Mar 27, 2009 at 03:42 PM.
Mar 27, 2009, 04:39 PM
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Welllll as has been shown in other threads, the stock block is good for 500+hp with 35Rs, 30psi etc. It's all in the tune really.
Running 28psi shouldn't be a problem as long as your supporting mods are in place - cams, springs, retainers and ARP head studs. Also good to have the exhaust free flowing as possible - 02 housing, 3 inch downpipe, 3 inch tube right out the back of the car. I'd also put an upgraded FMIC, intake and hard upper and lower IC piping on the list of must-haves to handle all that power.
Then you just chuck on your Red (and fuel pump and injectors), find a good tuner and have at it.
I'm running 28psi on my CBRD BBK Lite with all of the above mods, am making around 380+ at the wheels and having zero issues so far...and a 0 knock tune to boot.
On pump.
I ran 28psi on my stock turbo for a whole year before getting the BBK with no issues as well. And I drive like a maniac - track, AutoX and daily driving.
Just get all the supporting mod on there and find a good tuner.
I'd also recommend skipping the meth really - just one more thing to go wrong and you don't want to be relying on that for your car not to go pop.
Running 28psi shouldn't be a problem as long as your supporting mods are in place - cams, springs, retainers and ARP head studs. Also good to have the exhaust free flowing as possible - 02 housing, 3 inch downpipe, 3 inch tube right out the back of the car. I'd also put an upgraded FMIC, intake and hard upper and lower IC piping on the list of must-haves to handle all that power.
Then you just chuck on your Red (and fuel pump and injectors), find a good tuner and have at it.
I'm running 28psi on my CBRD BBK Lite with all of the above mods, am making around 380+ at the wheels and having zero issues so far...and a 0 knock tune to boot.
On pump.
I ran 28psi on my stock turbo for a whole year before getting the BBK with no issues as well. And I drive like a maniac - track, AutoX and daily driving.
Just get all the supporting mod on there and find a good tuner.
I'd also recommend skipping the meth really - just one more thing to go wrong and you don't want to be relying on that for your car not to go pop.
Mar 27, 2009, 04:42 PM
#72
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Also, if time and money allow the same day, I will have them do a pump gas tune that I can switch to via laptop. Plan on running meth kit all the time tho
Mar 31, 2009, 06:21 PM
#75
these are all really good questions. I think the reason people are so up in the air about whether they want a red or bbk is because there are countless graphs of reds in the 500s. For me, knowing that i could break into the 500s with the red makes it sort of worth it to jump on it. But then you also need to think that you could be wait 3-4 months just to get it really turns me off. I am a big supporter of the bbk and am fully planning on getting one, but all you guys need is one graph of a bbk in the 500s and peoples minds will be made up a lot easier.