bbk vs. fp red vs. tomei arms for stock block pump w/meth
Mar 22, 2009, 12:07 PM
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bbk vs. fp red vs. tomei arms for stock block pump w/meth
First of all I would like to say I know I have seen a bunch of threads comparing these turbos but I cannot for the life of me find any of them. The search feature on this forum is not pulling up any related threads despite what I type in, so if anyone can provide me with some links I would very much appreciate it!!!
I am interested in running one of the 3 listed turbos with 91 octane pump + meth on 26-28 psi, or rather the highest level possible without making my engine die quickly. I have all the bolt-ons for stock block pretty much ( full 3" TB exhaust, ported intake/exhast mani, 65mm TB, 880cc injectors, ARP headbolts, Cossie 272's w/upgraded valvesprings/retainers, ETS 3.5" IC and full piping + intake, walbro pump, Works tune at 22 psi ECU controlled boost,Exedy twin). Goals for car are about 450 whp with a reliable tune and not having to sacrifice much on lag if possible, which yeah I know the more lag the more power is usually the case, but I have seen all 3 turbos make those numbers, but can they all do it on 91 + meth at 26-28 psi safely? Would BBK or ARMS provide more "fun" with my application not seeing 30+ psi?
1.) For my application I know that the ARMS or BBK will have great overall powerband and less lag, but how much difference in power will I see at 26-28 psi with one of those turbos vs. an FP Red?
2.) For the record, with a stock block 2.0 with these type of mods what rpm would I see full boost (26-28 psi) with each of those turbos?
3.) Would there be any disadvantage having a BBK or ARMS down the road going to a 2.3L build with power falling off at higher RPMs?
4.) I know the Red outshines the other turbos at high boost, but is 26-28psi high enough boost to make the gains worth it? And, what would those gains be exactly?
It seems that so many of the threads I have read were on built motors/heads with race gas and insane boost levels, but nothing really close to my application. Maybe there IS a thread somewhere with the answer I am looking for but I sure as hell can't find it!! If anyone can provide me with some help on this issue I would appreciate it!! Vendors are welcome to chime in to, as I would like to hear why your product would be better for MY application... Thanks in advance for any help! Cheers
I am interested in running one of the 3 listed turbos with 91 octane pump + meth on 26-28 psi, or rather the highest level possible without making my engine die quickly. I have all the bolt-ons for stock block pretty much ( full 3" TB exhaust, ported intake/exhast mani, 65mm TB, 880cc injectors, ARP headbolts, Cossie 272's w/upgraded valvesprings/retainers, ETS 3.5" IC and full piping + intake, walbro pump, Works tune at 22 psi ECU controlled boost,Exedy twin). Goals for car are about 450 whp with a reliable tune and not having to sacrifice much on lag if possible, which yeah I know the more lag the more power is usually the case, but I have seen all 3 turbos make those numbers, but can they all do it on 91 + meth at 26-28 psi safely? Would BBK or ARMS provide more "fun" with my application not seeing 30+ psi?
1.) For my application I know that the ARMS or BBK will have great overall powerband and less lag, but how much difference in power will I see at 26-28 psi with one of those turbos vs. an FP Red?
2.) For the record, with a stock block 2.0 with these type of mods what rpm would I see full boost (26-28 psi) with each of those turbos?
3.) Would there be any disadvantage having a BBK or ARMS down the road going to a 2.3L build with power falling off at higher RPMs?
4.) I know the Red outshines the other turbos at high boost, but is 26-28psi high enough boost to make the gains worth it? And, what would those gains be exactly?
It seems that so many of the threads I have read were on built motors/heads with race gas and insane boost levels, but nothing really close to my application. Maybe there IS a thread somewhere with the answer I am looking for but I sure as hell can't find it!! If anyone can provide me with some help on this issue I would appreciate it!! Vendors are welcome to chime in to, as I would like to hear why your product would be better for MY application... Thanks in advance for any help! Cheers
Last edited by DJ Brett B; Mar 31, 2009 at 01:22 PM.
Mar 22, 2009, 12:25 PM
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On straight pump, I'd do the BBK. With meth injection, I'd live with the extra lag and go with the Red. The top end you'll gain at high boost will be well worth it, and it'll be able to keep up alot better with a stroker later.
Mar 22, 2009, 12:27 PM
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Right on- any idea on what type of gains the Red would have over the BBK at 26-28 psi? I know over 30 the Red would blow it away, but any idea what the gains would be at that level?
Mar 22, 2009, 12:45 PM
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Meth? No question the FPred. The lag is over rated. It is still a stock based turbo. All stock based turbos will spool somewhat similar. Yes there will be a slight different, a few hundreds rpm but nothing to loose sleep over. Make sure that if you get a FPred you ensure you have the revised oil feed line for sufficient oil. Ask your self if you are planning to stay with a 2.0 engine. I recently rode in a Buschur built 2.3 with a FPred and the turbo was surging. Is comming off and a BR 35r is going in. You may think the 2.3 and red is a street monster but it could potentially surge. It is surging more than a friends BR 2.3 and FPgreen. This could be because of the amount of air the FPred is working with. 2.3 and HTA35r or HTA3076r now that will be a street monster 
Last edited by sponger_pr; Mar 22, 2009 at 12:49 PM.
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Mar 22, 2009, 12:47 PM
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This question is too early in the game to know for sure. There have not been enough Tomei turbos sold and tuned so it will probably be a couple more months.
I'm waiting too, hopefully this year I can get myself a turbo upgrade.
I'm waiting too, hopefully this year I can get myself a turbo upgrade.
Mar 22, 2009, 12:49 PM
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My info on BBK lite is in sig, here is the link to review.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/se...ts-thread.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/se...bk-review.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/se...ts-thread.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/se...bk-review.html
Last edited by Kemist; Mar 22, 2009 at 12:53 PM.
Mar 22, 2009, 12:52 PM
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Meth? No question the FPred. The lag is over rated. It is still a stock based turbo. All stock based turbos will spool somewhat similar. Yes there will be a slight different, a few hundreds rpm but nothing to loose sleep over. Make sure that if you get a FPred you ensure you have the revised oil feed line for sufficient oil. Ask your self if you are planning to stay with a 2.0 engine. I recently rode in a Buschur built 2.3 with a FPred and the turbo was surging. Is comming off and a BR 35r is going in. You may think the 2.3 and red is a street monster but it will surge. 2.3 and HTA35r or HTA3076r now that will be a street monster
Right on thanks- 2.3 will be a few years down the road when the Evo is paid off, so at that time I will be saving for one of the HTA setups you mentioned actually! I figured the Red would hold me over for the next 3+ years... DIdn't realize it would surge on the 2.3 tho!
Oh well, its mainly to be run on my stock 2.0 anyways with meth... So thats 2 votes for Red... anybody have any reason NOT to pick a Red? I have actually been leaning towards the Red until the recent dynos of people pulling 400-450 whp with the other mentioned turbos.... just wondering the whp differences with my mods at the 26-28 psi level... sounds like Red gains are still pretty big and offset the spool loss at that level then?
Mar 22, 2009, 01:00 PM
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I have friends that are thinking to sell their 35r AMS kits to run the red and still make 500+whp while maintaining a pretty stealth engine bay here in California.
As far as the tomei, I would buy a BBK before bying the Tomei. You can't put a price on service support. CBRD is heavily involved in our community and will support you better than any Tomei seller would. If your Tomei fails, get ready to wait for it to be sent to Japan. Support your local companies and get great customer service while you are at it. The first FPred had a few blown due to the oil feed line not providing enough oil. They replaced those turbos and the customers are happy and still running Reds. Think about all these aspects when making your decision. BBK or FPs for sure. HTA and 2.3 great too.
As far as the tomei, I would buy a BBK before bying the Tomei. You can't put a price on service support. CBRD is heavily involved in our community and will support you better than any Tomei seller would. If your Tomei fails, get ready to wait for it to be sent to Japan. Support your local companies and get great customer service while you are at it. The first FPred had a few blown due to the oil feed line not providing enough oil. They replaced those turbos and the customers are happy and still running Reds. Think about all these aspects when making your decision. BBK or FPs for sure. HTA and 2.3 great too.
Mar 22, 2009, 01:01 PM
#13
BBK hands down. I've had one for about 3 weeks now and the performance is spectacular: power from 3500-8000rpm solid. Pump gas is a blast, flip on the alky and it gets retarded fun! This will bring you to the limit of the stock block and let you keep it nice and reliable.
I wrote a review in the review section, and hands down for service alone the choice goes to CBRD. I ordered on a friday and had the turbo in my hands the following week. FP simply cannot deliver this type of service and even though the red might make a few more ponies, it is simply not worth it imho.
With that said, the BBK is a freaking BLAST to drive! I'm *very* happy with my purchase and would recommend it to anyone else looking for a stock-frame turbo upgrade.
I wrote a review in the review section, and hands down for service alone the choice goes to CBRD. I ordered on a friday and had the turbo in my hands the following week. FP simply cannot deliver this type of service and even though the red might make a few more ponies, it is simply not worth it imho.
With that said, the BBK is a freaking BLAST to drive! I'm *very* happy with my purchase and would recommend it to anyone else looking for a stock-frame turbo upgrade.
Mar 22, 2009, 01:08 PM
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BBK hands down. I've had one for about 3 weeks now and the performance is spectacular: power from 3500-8000rpm solid. Pump gas is a blast, flip on the alky and it gets retarded fun! This will bring you to the limit of the stock block and let you keep it nice and reliable.
I wrote a review in the review section, and hands down for service alone the choice goes to CBRD. I ordered on a friday and had the turbo in my hands the following week. FP simply cannot deliver this type of service and even though the red might make a few more ponies, it is simply not worth it imho.
With that said, the BBK is a freaking BLAST to drive! I'm *very* happy with my purchase and would recommend it to anyone else looking for a stock-frame turbo upgrade.
I wrote a review in the review section, and hands down for service alone the choice goes to CBRD. I ordered on a friday and had the turbo in my hands the following week. FP simply cannot deliver this type of service and even though the red might make a few more ponies, it is simply not worth it imho.
With that said, the BBK is a freaking BLAST to drive! I'm *very* happy with my purchase and would recommend it to anyone else looking for a stock-frame turbo upgrade.
I'll try to look for your review, but which version of BBK you have? How much boost are you running on pump/meth and what numbers are you making on pump meth? Thanks!
Mar 22, 2009, 01:11 PM
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I have friends that are thinking to sell their 35r AMS kits to run the red and still make 500+whp while maintaining a pretty stealth engine bay here in California.
As far as the tomei, I would buy a BBK before bying the Tomei. You can't put a price on service support. CBRD is heavily involved in our community and will support you better than any Tomei seller would. If your Tomei fails, get ready to wait for it to be sent to Japan. Support your local companies and get great customer service while you are at it. The first FPred had a few blown due to the oil feed line not providing enough oil. They replaced those turbos and the customers are happy and still running Reds. Think about all these aspects when making your decision. BBK or FPs for sure. HTA and 2.3 great too.
As far as the tomei, I would buy a BBK before bying the Tomei. You can't put a price on service support. CBRD is heavily involved in our community and will support you better than any Tomei seller would. If your Tomei fails, get ready to wait for it to be sent to Japan. Support your local companies and get great customer service while you are at it. The first FPred had a few blown due to the oil feed line not providing enough oil. They replaced those turbos and the customers are happy and still running Reds. Think about all these aspects when making your decision. BBK or FPs for sure. HTA and 2.3 great too.