Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

Ok, so I was coming back from a 100 mile freeway cruz, got off of the freeway, and the motor sounded a little louder than normal...

Pulled in, popped the hood, and noticed an oil/exhaust outline in the v shaped troph that is in the center of the turbo manifold. Come to realize the center bolt is loose. I start to tighten it slowy, nut turns, bolt doesn't. I tighten it down...slowly, after I think it is tight enough, it keeps wanting to tighten more. I call a buddy, says to back it off a little and let the motor cool... call it for the night.
Wake up this morning before I have to go to work... Start to tighten it down, get (4) full threads of tighten on it, and it still wants to tighten more. Then I notice the bolt atart to turn.

How hard is the repair, and what are my worry's?
I snapped a pick with the camara on my phone to show how much of the bolt is exposed past the nut. almost 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch is sticking past the end of the nut. I will post a pick later. But the bolt is now starting to turn...

dtuned

You're gonna have to remove the turbo manifold and re-tap the bolt hole on the cylinder head. It sounds like someone may have been a little too aggressive with tightening in the past and stripped out the threads in the head.

How are the other bolt/nut pieces? Are they all tight?

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

I checked them all, and they are tight and holding. Just an observation, any chance I broke the bolt inside the head?

If I were not to have the time to do it myself, what do you think a shop will charge? Or is there someone in SLC that wants to earn some cash?

Also, I have some lifter noise now, chance I burnt a valve with this, not sure how long it has been goin on.

dtuned

If you did break the bolt, it would have fallen out for sure, so no worries there. When you re-tap, you may have to go up a size depending on how bad the bolt hole is stripped. If so, you may want to look into upgrading all of the bolt/washer/nut assemblies for something like ARP. It's a sound investment and you won't have to worry about bolts and nuts loosening again, unless you back them out yourself. Whoever does the job, make sure they use thread-lock from 3M on all the bolt sides going into the head.

Shop rates... man, that's a good question, but it is so easy to do. Just remove the turbo and manifold assembly, take the bolt that caused the threads in the head to be stripped and go to a tool shop and buy a re-tap kit. If you don't understand how to do the job, have the tool shop explain it to you and show you how to select the correct tap by diameter and thread pitch.

An alternative to re-tap is to use a helicoil, and the tool shop should have that and can explain it, as well.

I'd do it for cash, but we're half a world away.

KenMasters

iTrader: (10)

I wouldn't pull a head for that. I'd just re tap with a larger size and drill out the coresponding manifold flange hole. It will take you longer to pull it all apart than to do the actual work.

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

Thanks again fellas. Thats what my buddy last night recommended. I want to do it right, but am worried when it comes to actually tapping, grinding, or drilling the head. It was probably my fault, because I did the upgrades my self for the Turbo Manifold, 02 housing, dump pipe, etc. When we tightened them. I remember that it took me like 5 hours to do it, tried to take my time. I only tightened the nuts to hand strength, and then a quarter of a turn more. Couldn't get a torque wrench on them, so I know it was a guess on the tightening. The other thing is, when I was originally pulling off the bults, they were a pain, and you could here the snap of the nut breaking free when I was pulling them off. It did worry me some, but then when I put everything back together, and tightend it all down, everything seemed fine, and held. I also rechecked those bolts a week or to later, to make sure everything was holding.

Elevated boost wouldn't do this would it? The reason I ask, is a month after the install, the turbo header has 2 giant nuts/bolts in the top of the manifold to add sensors, etc. Well one of them blew out, didn't strip, but litterely fell out of the top of the manifold. Had them tightened down, and no exhasut leaks after that, till I found this last night.

Thanks again guys.

dtuned

I didn't say to take the head off. Just need to remove the turbo and manifold and re-tap or helicoil the damaged bolt hole. If one uses the helicoil method, you don't need to increase the size of the bolt hole or the corresponding manifold bolt hole, since the repair is to the damaged thread section of the head bolt hole.

5ULW610

so the damage is on the exhaust manifold to the head i thought those were studs that are in the head and nut goes on them

dtuned

No, for it would happen also under normal boost. Dissimilar torques, loading and unloading on the engine and the natural properties of heat transfer caused this. The flange of the manifold may also be a little warped. You can check this via straight edge ruler and a feeler gauge. If it is warped, you can have a machine shop mill it straight for you. If you have the time and the patience, you can do it yourself with a whetstone and WD-40 and do it in a figure eight pattern, but it is a mind-numbing process. The two big ports for sensors, use some thread-lock on them and torque them down.

Don't be afraid to do the job yourself. Have your friend help you and check your work. A machine shop will require you to remove the head, and I am sure that the dealership will do the same and pass off the expense to you.

Good luck, my friend.

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

You are correct, it is a stud, that is why I worried that I may have broke the stud. Got to quit refering to it as a bolt.

The turbo manifold flange is 1/2 inch thick, and did not seem to be warped, it was holding, but you could slide a piece of paper between it and the gasket, or it and the head when I noticed it last night. I will have it checked out. If I can, while I have everything off, I will ship it off to have it all ceramic coated. Turbo Manifold, O2, and Dump, since you dang near need to pull all of it to get the manifold off. Or at least close to all of it.

Thanks again.

KenMasters

iTrader: (10)

To set the helicoil right you would need to have it drilled and tapped on a mill. I for one would not try to helicoil using a hand drill and a hand tap. I have never done it or seen it done that way, but I could be wrong. Unless your skilled and confident enough to do it with hand tools on the car I wouldn't suggest doing it .

DIDYSIS

iTrader: (18)

use torque wrench next time, and also try to use a remover kit to get it out.

barneyb

I never had this problem but most of the first generation DSM's popped these studs and were running with the holes helicoiled which was the preferred fix.

dtuned

With the radiator out of the way, there's plenty of room to work, and you can get 90 degrees. It's all hand tools for this size job based on the size of the stud, and it is not hard to do. Less than 10 minutes to do.

From your initial post, you said you wouldn't pull the head and you would re-tap for a larger size stud, and in the case of helicoil, you recommend pulling the head and have it drilled and tapped on a mill. A mill doesn't tap, and of the two processes, re-tapping for a larger stud is irreversable. Regardless, in both cases, the head doesn't need to be pulled. If it were in an area of tight access, then yes, pull it. Also, a tap cannot go any further than the original hole based on the design of a tap (it's blunted) and it is nearly impossible to create a new hole angle than what already exists.

Not picking a fight, just putting the record straight on tools, since I do this for a living.

KenMasters

iTrader: (10)

Your right, pulling the head is not necessary and it can be done just the way you say. It is the fastest ,easiest , and most economical way to do this. I'm just to hard headed and set in my ways of doing things. Sometimes it's good to get a better perspective on things.
I've seen to many botched jobs brought into the machine shop at work. Thats why I look at this job like I do.