My Buschur 2.3 stroker with hta 86
Jun 18, 2009, 07:34 PM
#46
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Congrats on the build and thank you for running our engine!
The tuner you are using appears to not be up on the latest stock ECU modifications. The knock can be dialed out. I'd be interested to see the actual tune though as our shortblocks are generally very quiet and I find it hard to believe you have false knock. I could be wrong...
The stock ECU is capable of big power and I wouldn't have said that just few months ago.
The AEM EMS in the right hands is excellent, not sure who you are planning on having that tuned if you go that route.
I agree with most of these guys and think if you get the stock ECU tuned by the right person you will be happy.
The tuner you are using appears to not be up on the latest stock ECU modifications. The knock can be dialed out. I'd be interested to see the actual tune though as our shortblocks are generally very quiet and I find it hard to believe you have false knock. I could be wrong...
The stock ECU is capable of big power and I wouldn't have said that just few months ago.
The AEM EMS in the right hands is excellent, not sure who you are planning on having that tuned if you go that route.
I agree with most of these guys and think if you get the stock ECU tuned by the right person you will be happy.
. I was just wondering do you think 450whp on a dyno jet is right for around 23psi on the hta 86?
Jun 19, 2009, 02:49 PM
#50
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: flushing
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Congrats on the build and thank you for running our engine!
The tuner you are using appears to not be up on the latest stock ECU modifications. The knock can be dialed out. I'd be interested to see the actual tune though as our shortblocks are generally very quiet and I find it hard to believe you have false knock. I could be wrong...
The stock ECU is capable of big power and I wouldn't have said that just few months ago.
The AEM EMS in the right hands is excellent, not sure who you are planning on having that tuned if you go that route.
I agree with most of these guys and think if you get the stock ECU tuned by the right person you will be happy.
The tuner you are using appears to not be up on the latest stock ECU modifications. The knock can be dialed out. I'd be interested to see the actual tune though as our shortblocks are generally very quiet and I find it hard to believe you have false knock. I could be wrong...
The stock ECU is capable of big power and I wouldn't have said that just few months ago.
The AEM EMS in the right hands is excellent, not sure who you are planning on having that tuned if you go that route.
I agree with most of these guys and think if you get the stock ECU tuned by the right person you will be happy.
The tuner he used .. was tuning stock ecu's when they were hex edited back in 03' when you had al from dynoflash doing your stuff . I am fully aware of lowering knock tables and how the stock ecu works. With the knock tables untouched the car made a whopping 320whp picking up 36counts of knock. The car ended up making what it made from a modified knock table.
As far as aem ems .. You can run inputs for methanol under line pressure have the aem only when it sees line pressure switch maps. There are many benefits to the aem over the stock computer.
Is al still tuning your stock computers dave ?
Mark
Turbotrix
Last edited by Manny@TurboTrix; Jun 19, 2009 at 02:56 PM.
Jun 19, 2009, 03:23 PM
#51
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The tuner he used .. was tuning stock ecu's when they were hex edited back in 03' when you had al from dynoflash doing your stuff . I am fully aware of lowering knock tables and how the stock ecu works. With the knock tables untouched the car made a whopping 320whp picking up 36counts of knock. The car ended up making what it made from a modified knock table.
As far as aem ems .. You can run inputs for methanol under line pressure have the aem only when it sees line pressure switch maps. There are many benefits to the aem over the stock computer.
Is al still tuning your stock computers dave ?
Mark
Turbotrix
As far as aem ems .. You can run inputs for methanol under line pressure have the aem only when it sees line pressure switch maps. There are many benefits to the aem over the stock computer.
Is al still tuning your stock computers dave ?
Mark
Turbotrix
.
Jun 19, 2009, 07:03 PM
#52
The stock ECU can also switch maps with meth inputs. I think JackofTrades has a detailed thread about it that was written quite a while ago.
I think we are just suggesting to the OP that the stock ECU is not a limiting factor anymore in making power. You can do most anything you can with a standalone, with a more powerful processor and new developments all the time.
Just to name a few that can be done on the stock ECU:
- speed density
- realtime live mapping
- realtime map switching via several different switching methods (both automatic and manual)
- high speed DMA logging
- log boost, wideband, MAT, etc
- gear based boost control
- NLTS
- launch maps
- knock cel
-valet mode
- boost drop on knock
- full knock control over the routines developed by Mitsu, which in my opinion is far superior to stand alone knock control
- full OBD-II compliance for emissions (very important for some people), as well as ways to control the OBD readiness tests
There is a ton more that I am forgetting since I don't even use all of the features and the list just gets better every day. There is even someone working on a full flex fuel implementation with the GM flex fuel sensors.
Simply put, the stock ECU is more powerful than stand-alones and every one of our cars comes with one. And since there are numerous people writing code and patches for the stock ECU, there is no limit to it's potential. With a stand-alone, you are at the mercy of the developing company and their update schedule(s).
I think we are just suggesting to the OP that the stock ECU is not a limiting factor anymore in making power. You can do most anything you can with a standalone, with a more powerful processor and new developments all the time.
Just to name a few that can be done on the stock ECU:
- speed density
- realtime live mapping
- realtime map switching via several different switching methods (both automatic and manual)
- high speed DMA logging
- log boost, wideband, MAT, etc
- gear based boost control
- NLTS
- launch maps
- knock cel
-valet mode
- boost drop on knock
- full knock control over the routines developed by Mitsu, which in my opinion is far superior to stand alone knock control
- full OBD-II compliance for emissions (very important for some people), as well as ways to control the OBD readiness tests
There is a ton more that I am forgetting since I don't even use all of the features and the list just gets better every day. There is even someone working on a full flex fuel implementation with the GM flex fuel sensors.
Simply put, the stock ECU is more powerful than stand-alones and every one of our cars comes with one. And since there are numerous people writing code and patches for the stock ECU, there is no limit to it's potential. With a stand-alone, you are at the mercy of the developing company and their update schedule(s).
Last edited by l2r99gst; Jun 19, 2009 at 07:06 PM.
Jun 19, 2009, 07:06 PM
#53
Well said and I have to agree. Getting me to agree to that is a tough one, just check danl's signature! hahaha
I do wish the genius's (and I am serious about that) are writing all these fixes would bring installing them down to an idiot's level. I am slowly learning but implementing all the xml files and such is a bit intimidating.
I do wish the genius's (and I am serious about that) are writing all these fixes would bring installing them down to an idiot's level. I am slowly learning but implementing all the xml files and such is a bit intimidating.
Jun 19, 2009, 07:24 PM
#54
Account Disabled
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1,029
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The stock ecu in my opinion drives better. It should be on any street car if just because it can pass an OBD2 emissions scan which is required in most states for a true street car. Plus the stock ecu starts the car up everytime and never forgets the rom or accidentally deletes or corrupts it. The hardware is solid.
The AEM has a nice amount of configurable inputs/outputs that I wish we could start implementing into the stock ecu. We are already doing some stuff but its going to take a lot of work to get to the point where the user can pick an input and configure it him/herself.
The AEM has a nice amount of configurable inputs/outputs that I wish we could start implementing into the stock ecu. We are already doing some stuff but its going to take a lot of work to get to the point where the user can pick an input and configure it him/herself.
Jun 19, 2009, 07:56 PM
#55
I have NEVER had an AEM lose it's cal file, delete it or corrupt it. Never seen it happen. I believe most of those stories I've heard are from user error. I'd venture to bet I've tuned more of them than most, just stating that as reference to the ratio of tunes to never seeing any of those things happen. Start up on the AEM is only an issue as to how long it takes for the ignition to sync and actually fire, that is sad that it still exists when it is clearly a software issue for the EVO's on AEM's part.
"I highly recommend using the stock ECU for even the most extreme builds."
There is a new quote for your signature too!
"I highly recommend using the stock ECU for even the most extreme builds."
There is a new quote for your signature too!
Jun 19, 2009, 08:33 PM
#56
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is 36 counts of knock normal on a built motor with a unmodified knock table? I'm just wondering.. Oh and the gas was 8 months old so i don't know if that had something to do with it.
Last edited by ToMuchBoost; Jun 19, 2009 at 09:01 PM.
Jun 19, 2009, 08:37 PM
#57
I missed your post there manny/mark or whoever posted. I had absolutely NO idea that TT tuned the car just to be clear.
No actually Al is not tuning the stock ECU's for me anymore. You must be behind the times a bit. I seem to be making pretty good power on my own, thanks for the concern though. Out of curiousity, since you have so many years experience over me on the stock ECU. What's the quickest you've had an EVO go that you tuned on the stock ECU? It will give me something to shoot for.
No actually Al is not tuning the stock ECU's for me anymore. You must be behind the times a bit. I seem to be making pretty good power on my own, thanks for the concern though. Out of curiousity, since you have so many years experience over me on the stock ECU. What's the quickest you've had an EVO go that you tuned on the stock ECU? It will give me something to shoot for.
Jun 20, 2009, 07:59 AM
#58
Account Disabled
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1,029
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have NEVER had an AEM lose it's cal file, delete it or corrupt it. Never seen it happen. I believe most of those stories I've heard are from user error. I'd venture to bet I've tuned more of them than most, just stating that as reference to the ratio of tunes to never seeing any of those things happen. Start up on the AEM is only an issue as to how long it takes for the ignition to sync and actually fire, that is sad that it still exists when it is clearly a software issue for the EVO's on AEM's part.
"I highly recommend using the stock ECU for even the most extreme builds."
There is a new quote for your signature too!
"I highly recommend using the stock ECU for even the most extreme builds."
There is a new quote for your signature too!
Jun 20, 2009, 08:07 AM
#59
Account Disabled
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1,029
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also in this thread you can see AWD motorsports of which I think you are familiar with, complaining about their 2008 trip to the shootout being "wasted" due to the resetting AEM disease. I'm not picking on you or calling you out as you usually think I am. I am just stating what I've noticed in real life and on the internet.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7173196-post1.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7173196-post1.html
Jun 20, 2009, 04:54 PM
#60
Al's car failed to fire due to a dead battery, we had no jump box handy, I wasn't going to get accused of holding everyone up to "help out my boy" and told them to race and if he wasn't ready that was too bad, you can verify that with Al if you like. Dead battery though.
Mike's car, I don't know about. He had various problems last year at the race. I also said, "I have NEVER had an AEM lose it's cal file, delete it or corrupt it." Not being a jerk but that is I, as in ME, I have heard of it but have never personally had it happen or seen it myself.
I've dealt with the shorted circuit board problem, lost an engine from it. AEM fixed it with different non-metalic stands between the boards. The company is far FAR from perfect but I have had excellent luck with it.
Mike's car, I don't know about. He had various problems last year at the race. I also said, "I have NEVER had an AEM lose it's cal file, delete it or corrupt it." Not being a jerk but that is I, as in ME, I have heard of it but have never personally had it happen or seen it myself.
I've dealt with the shorted circuit board problem, lost an engine from it. AEM fixed it with different non-metalic stands between the boards. The company is far FAR from perfect but I have had excellent luck with it.