75 mm Boomba Throttle Body VS stock dyno results
Jul 26, 2009, 02:31 PM
#49
To clear up anything before this turns into forum drama, we have literally hundreds of Evo's with our 65mm throttle bodies. Street Evo's. Street/Strip Evo's. Autocross Evo's. Full-on race Evo's.
Charlie is the only car where we witnessed this failure. And it happened twice...on the same car. And yes, of course the bolts were secured with loctite. We cannot account for what happens to our throttle bodies once we ship them. In addition, we have other full race Evo's, like John Mueller's, who have never had a problem. Ever. Let me make that clear...EVER. On any other TB's than the ones that were on Charlie's car.
So, draw whatever conclusion(s) you would like from these facts.
In addition, I personally paid to replace the piston that was damaged by the first loose bolt. Charlie can vouch for this. He didn't ask me to. I did it out of goodwill because I thought it was the right thing to do. See how many vendors/manufacturers will do that on a full on race car under race conditions. Nothing was damaged the second time around.
Charlie now runs a Boomba TB and likes it. He has a full race Evo with a DI intake manifold along with a 35r, and he probably benefits from the 75mm unit.
Charlie is the only car where we witnessed this failure. And it happened twice...on the same car. And yes, of course the bolts were secured with loctite. We cannot account for what happens to our throttle bodies once we ship them. In addition, we have other full race Evo's, like John Mueller's, who have never had a problem. Ever. Let me make that clear...EVER. On any other TB's than the ones that were on Charlie's car.
So, draw whatever conclusion(s) you would like from these facts.
In addition, I personally paid to replace the piston that was damaged by the first loose bolt. Charlie can vouch for this. He didn't ask me to. I did it out of goodwill because I thought it was the right thing to do. See how many vendors/manufacturers will do that on a full on race car under race conditions. Nothing was damaged the second time around.
Charlie now runs a Boomba TB and likes it. He has a full race Evo with a DI intake manifold along with a 35r, and he probably benefits from the 75mm unit.
but it might be nice to know which bolts could be a potential problem so a person could check them from time to time... (beginning and midpoints of the season etc...) it would give those of us who obsess about checking, and double checking things, another chance to admire the TB's sitting upstream from our intake runners.
We are talking about the two little allen bolts actually on the butterfly plate, correct?
if not, pictures, description, disclosure?
Last edited by nirvevo; Jul 26, 2009 at 02:49 PM.
Jul 26, 2009, 03:43 PM
#50
Fair enough, R&D comes at a price to be sure.
but it might be nice to know which bolts could be a potential problem so a person could check them from time to time... (beginning and midpoints of the season etc...) it would give those of us who obsess about checking, and double checking things, another chance to admire the TB's sitting upstream from our intake runners.
We are talking about the two little allen bolts actually on the butterfly plate, correct?
if not, pictures, description, disclosure?
but it might be nice to know which bolts could be a potential problem so a person could check them from time to time... (beginning and midpoints of the season etc...) it would give those of us who obsess about checking, and double checking things, another chance to admire the TB's sitting upstream from our intake runners.
We are talking about the two little allen bolts actually on the butterfly plate, correct?
if not, pictures, description, disclosure?
For all you with concerns out there, in MIL.SPEC's professional opinion, you have nothing to worry about. We inspected both of the suspect throttle bodies, both times, and felt that there were some issues that weren't related to our throttle bodies. Meaning, we can't account for what happened to them once they left MIL.SPEC after having gone through our internal QC process.
We are sorry that Charlie brought this up in a thread dedicated to a Boomba product.
So, anyone with any other questions, please feel free to PM me. And let's get this thread back to Boomba products.
Jul 26, 2009, 03:49 PM
#52
To clear up anything before this turns into forum drama, we have literally hundreds of Evo's with our 65mm throttle bodies. Street Evo's. Street/Strip Evo's. Autocross Evo's. Full-on race Evo's.
Charlie is the only car where we witnessed this failure. And it happened twice...on the same car. And yes, of course the bolts were secured with loctite. We cannot account for what happens to our throttle bodies once we ship them. In addition, we have other full race Evo's, like John Mueller's, who have never had a problem. Ever. Let me make that clear...EVER. On any other TB's than the ones that were on Charlie's car.
So, draw whatever conclusion(s) you would like from these facts.
In addition, I personally paid to replace the piston that was damaged by the first loose bolt. Charlie can vouch for this. He didn't ask me to. I did it out of goodwill because I thought it was the right thing to do. See how many vendors/manufacturers will do that on a full on race car under race conditions. Nothing was damaged the second time around.
Charlie now runs a Boomba TB and likes it. He has a full race Evo with a DI intake manifold along with a 35r, and he probably benefits from the 75mm unit.
Charlie is the only car where we witnessed this failure. And it happened twice...on the same car. And yes, of course the bolts were secured with loctite. We cannot account for what happens to our throttle bodies once we ship them. In addition, we have other full race Evo's, like John Mueller's, who have never had a problem. Ever. Let me make that clear...EVER. On any other TB's than the ones that were on Charlie's car.
So, draw whatever conclusion(s) you would like from these facts.
In addition, I personally paid to replace the piston that was damaged by the first loose bolt. Charlie can vouch for this. He didn't ask me to. I did it out of goodwill because I thought it was the right thing to do. See how many vendors/manufacturers will do that on a full on race car under race conditions. Nothing was damaged the second time around.
Charlie now runs a Boomba TB and likes it. He has a full race Evo with a DI intake manifold along with a 35r, and he probably benefits from the 75mm unit.
Jul 26, 2009, 04:47 PM
#57
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You all realize that the ONLY thing that happens with the Boomba 75mm TB VS a 65mm TB is you essentially reduce the range of your throttle pedal with standard 2.5" piping almost everyone uses.
The "improved response" they advertise is a function of this reduction of range. You will not flow more air then the smallest area is the system, that is just pure physics at work there. This is going to be hard to explain, but here it goes.
With a 65mm throttle body, you utilize the entire range of the gas pedal because the inlet and outlet are basically equal to the area of the throttle plate..... roughly 62mm, so as you slowly roll onto the throttle you will have the maximum flow at WOT because with the butterfly completely open the area is equal. 62mm.
Now when you use this Boomba, or any other larger throttle body greater than 60mm or 62mm, aka 75mm, "WOT" throttle happens earlier in the range of the pedal motion. You are moving a larger plate, therefore with every degree of pedal motion, the open area is getting larger faster... so with the gas pedal fully pressed to the floor, WOT, the area available for air flow in the throttle body is 33% greater than the area needed for air flow, which means you basically hit WOT at 66% of the travel of your gas pedal, thus reducing the range, or the feel of your gas pedal. You will not see any power increase, and in reality the car is not any more responsive, it feels like it is because your gas pedal has become less sensitive.
You WILL have a power increase over the stock throttle body using this, because the stock TB is 52mm which as we established is smaller than the ICP and the inlet to the intake manifold, but so will a 65mm Millspec, or Buschur TB with out the wasting pedal range.
I HIGHLY doubt you will see any substantial power increases using the Boomba 75mm vs a 65mm TB of your choice with a stock manifold and the standard 2.5" piping.
Im not trying to bad mouth them, I just think people should have the facts. Everyone runs out and buys all kinds of stuff because someone post a dyno graph gaining HP over stock..... In reality people need to look at these graphs and think about what is really going on here.....
I dont make TB, nor to I endorce any of the vendors, Im just a guy that happens to have a lot of experience with intake design on cars, was bored one night, read this thread, though I would share what I learned.... thats what this is about right, sharing knowledge.....
I have not used or seen any of Boomba's products, Im sure they are of the highest of quality, and this throttle body in the proper application Im sure would work really well!
The "improved response" they advertise is a function of this reduction of range. You will not flow more air then the smallest area is the system, that is just pure physics at work there. This is going to be hard to explain, but here it goes.
With a 65mm throttle body, you utilize the entire range of the gas pedal because the inlet and outlet are basically equal to the area of the throttle plate..... roughly 62mm, so as you slowly roll onto the throttle you will have the maximum flow at WOT because with the butterfly completely open the area is equal. 62mm.
Now when you use this Boomba, or any other larger throttle body greater than 60mm or 62mm, aka 75mm, "WOT" throttle happens earlier in the range of the pedal motion. You are moving a larger plate, therefore with every degree of pedal motion, the open area is getting larger faster... so with the gas pedal fully pressed to the floor, WOT, the area available for air flow in the throttle body is 33% greater than the area needed for air flow, which means you basically hit WOT at 66% of the travel of your gas pedal, thus reducing the range, or the feel of your gas pedal. You will not see any power increase, and in reality the car is not any more responsive, it feels like it is because your gas pedal has become less sensitive.
You WILL have a power increase over the stock throttle body using this, because the stock TB is 52mm which as we established is smaller than the ICP and the inlet to the intake manifold, but so will a 65mm Millspec, or Buschur TB with out the wasting pedal range.
I HIGHLY doubt you will see any substantial power increases using the Boomba 75mm vs a 65mm TB of your choice with a stock manifold and the standard 2.5" piping.
Im not trying to bad mouth them, I just think people should have the facts. Everyone runs out and buys all kinds of stuff because someone post a dyno graph gaining HP over stock..... In reality people need to look at these graphs and think about what is really going on here.....
I dont make TB, nor to I endorce any of the vendors, Im just a guy that happens to have a lot of experience with intake design on cars, was bored one night, read this thread, though I would share what I learned.... thats what this is about right, sharing knowledge.....
I have not used or seen any of Boomba's products, Im sure they are of the highest of quality, and this throttle body in the proper application Im sure would work really well!
Last edited by denver; Jul 26, 2009 at 05:19 PM.
Jul 26, 2009, 08:15 PM
#58
how so ?, i was making a point, and please, you dont want me to get into any further details. Cause i have pix and documentation of your TB failure to my engine. Lets not forget im was one of yours Milspec TB carrier, and also I [Aby@mils.spec and i go way back when he used to install cams out of his house. Also we have issues with leaky seals for my clients 65mm TB or too tight butterfly plate where it would bite after it heats up. It have happened to couple of client evos. Ask your buddy Aby, he knows about it. He even sent me a bag dozen of new seals so just in case one of the Mil.spec 65mm have leaky seals issue, which it has happened couple of times. All this time people think i blew my own engine up due my tuning ability, when i was just covering up the real reason why my engine blew up, so before pointing fingers, I highly suggest you get your facts straight
Don't g time wrong i do thank full you paid for one pistons. But that ain't enough to cover that. I end up buying a new block, crank, pistons, rods, machining work. Time and labor taking the engine off and put it in. A short block 2.3L from buschur is about $3,550.00. That doesn't include water pump, overhaul gasket set, etc etc. Let stalk about Also buying new head and parts for it. How about track days or competition day where your TB kill the weekend . The list go on and on.
The funny thing is that when we were running stock TB, non of this ever happen for racing 3 season, until Mil.Spec 65mm TB.
To bombaRacing, i highly apologize for whoring your thread like this. I was setting something straight with some people
....charlie@C-Spec Tuning
Last edited by vboy425; Feb 15, 2012 at 12:26 AM.
Jul 26, 2009, 08:21 PM
#59
You all realize that the ONLY thing that happens with the Boomba 75mm TB VS a 65mm TB is you essentially reduce the range of your throttle pedal with standard 2.5" piping almost everyone uses.
The "improved response" they advertise is a function of this reduction of range. You will not flow more air then the smallest area is the system, that is just pure physics at work there. This is going to be hard to explain, but here it goes.
With a 65mm throttle body, you utilize the entire range of the gas pedal because the inlet and outlet are basically equal to the area of the throttle plate..... roughly 62mm, so as you slowly roll onto the throttle you will have the maximum flow at WOT because with the butterfly completely open the area is equal. 62mm.
Now when you use this Boomba, or any other larger throttle body greater than 60mm or 62mm, aka 75mm, "WOT" throttle happens earlier in the range of the pedal motion. You are moving a larger plate, therefore with every degree of pedal motion, the open area is getting larger faster... so with the gas pedal fully pressed to the floor, WOT, the area available for air flow in the throttle body is 33% greater than the area needed for air flow, which means you basically hit WOT at 66% of the travel of your gas pedal, thus reducing the range, or the feel of your gas pedal. You will not see any power increase, and in reality the car is not any more responsive, it feels like it is because your gas pedal has become less sensitive.
You WILL have a power increase over the stock throttle body using this, because the stock TB is 52mm which as we established is smaller than the ICP and the inlet to the intake manifold, but so will a 65mm Millspec, or Buschur TB with out the wasting pedal range.
I HIGHLY doubt you will see any substantial power increases using the Boomba 75mm vs a 65mm TB of your choice with a stock manifold and the standard 2.5" piping.
Im not trying to bad mouth them, I just think people should have the facts. Everyone runs out and buys all kinds of stuff because someone post a dyno graph gaining HP over stock..... In reality people need to look at these graphs and think about what is really going on here.....
I dont make TB, nor to I endorce any of the vendors, Im just a guy that happens to have a lot of experience with intake design on cars, was bored one night, read this thread, though I would share what I learned.... thats what this is about right, sharing knowledge.....
I have not used or seen any of Boomba's products, Im sure they are of the highest of quality, and this throttle body in the proper application Im sure would work really well!
The "improved response" they advertise is a function of this reduction of range. You will not flow more air then the smallest area is the system, that is just pure physics at work there. This is going to be hard to explain, but here it goes.
With a 65mm throttle body, you utilize the entire range of the gas pedal because the inlet and outlet are basically equal to the area of the throttle plate..... roughly 62mm, so as you slowly roll onto the throttle you will have the maximum flow at WOT because with the butterfly completely open the area is equal. 62mm.
Now when you use this Boomba, or any other larger throttle body greater than 60mm or 62mm, aka 75mm, "WOT" throttle happens earlier in the range of the pedal motion. You are moving a larger plate, therefore with every degree of pedal motion, the open area is getting larger faster... so with the gas pedal fully pressed to the floor, WOT, the area available for air flow in the throttle body is 33% greater than the area needed for air flow, which means you basically hit WOT at 66% of the travel of your gas pedal, thus reducing the range, or the feel of your gas pedal. You will not see any power increase, and in reality the car is not any more responsive, it feels like it is because your gas pedal has become less sensitive.
You WILL have a power increase over the stock throttle body using this, because the stock TB is 52mm which as we established is smaller than the ICP and the inlet to the intake manifold, but so will a 65mm Millspec, or Buschur TB with out the wasting pedal range.
I HIGHLY doubt you will see any substantial power increases using the Boomba 75mm vs a 65mm TB of your choice with a stock manifold and the standard 2.5" piping.
Im not trying to bad mouth them, I just think people should have the facts. Everyone runs out and buys all kinds of stuff because someone post a dyno graph gaining HP over stock..... In reality people need to look at these graphs and think about what is really going on here.....
I dont make TB, nor to I endorce any of the vendors, Im just a guy that happens to have a lot of experience with intake design on cars, was bored one night, read this thread, though I would share what I learned.... thats what this is about right, sharing knowledge.....
I have not used or seen any of Boomba's products, Im sure they are of the highest of quality, and this throttle body in the proper application Im sure would work really well!