3.8" Garrett IC vs. 4" ETS IC
Aug 27, 2009, 01:59 PM
#31
here is a before and after going from the ets3.5 inch core to the garret core the conditions are listed in the post above.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...k-ftw-scan.jpg
the only change was the intercooler.
jeff
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...k-ftw-scan.jpg
the only change was the intercooler.
jeff
Aug 27, 2009, 02:09 PM
#33
here is a before and after going from the ets3.5 inch core to the garret core the conditions are listed in the post above.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...k-ftw-scan.jpg
the only change was the intercooler.
jeff
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...k-ftw-scan.jpg
the only change was the intercooler.
jeff
Looks like its ETS for me.
Aug 27, 2009, 02:13 PM
#35
Mike,
you are correct the test were done on seperate days, like 10 days apart. Boost leek test were done before both tunes so that's out of the equation. The day the Garret core was tested it was hotter, 25% higher humidity and rainng outside, so take that for what it's worth. Just putting the Garret core on and not tuning the car made the same power as the ets but was a lot richer due to the more efficient design. We were able to make more power by evenng out the afr to were it was before with ets core and the ait dropped enough that we could add timing throughout the power band starting with initial spool up to make even more power throuout the whole curve just not up top. I was there during the whole process being shown everystep that was taken because I to didn't think that the Garret core would make more power then the ets, but I saw the proof right n front of me. I saw the graphs after every pull was made and saw every change tha was made in person in real time. After that experience there is nothng you can say to try and prove your core is better then a Garret one. My conclusion is based on facts not what ithink I know.
Your in house testing is not worth that much either considering it's not a unbiest test in any way. Take a look at the buschur forums, there is a full thread on there with him logging intake temps from random intercoolers w random turbos just gving plain information from testing he has done. The garret core is more effecient then ant other core he tested plain and simple. I'll post I link when I get s chance.
Jeff
you are correct the test were done on seperate days, like 10 days apart. Boost leek test were done before both tunes so that's out of the equation. The day the Garret core was tested it was hotter, 25% higher humidity and rainng outside, so take that for what it's worth. Just putting the Garret core on and not tuning the car made the same power as the ets but was a lot richer due to the more efficient design. We were able to make more power by evenng out the afr to were it was before with ets core and the ait dropped enough that we could add timing throughout the power band starting with initial spool up to make even more power throuout the whole curve just not up top. I was there during the whole process being shown everystep that was taken because I to didn't think that the Garret core would make more power then the ets, but I saw the proof right n front of me. I saw the graphs after every pull was made and saw every change tha was made in person in real time. After that experience there is nothng you can say to try and prove your core is better then a Garret one. My conclusion is based on facts not what ithink I know.
Your in house testing is not worth that much either considering it's not a unbiest test in any way. Take a look at the buschur forums, there is a full thread on there with him logging intake temps from random intercoolers w random turbos just gving plain information from testing he has done. The garret core is more effecient then ant other core he tested plain and simple. I'll post I link when I get s chance.
Jeff
Jeff -
You are saying to go to the buschur forum? The same place the youtube video was posted about how our cores are not as efficient, then later realized it was garrett vs garrett?
We are comparing apples with oranges on the testing. 3.5" vs 3.8" on different days, with a retune..
Thanks,
Michael
Aug 27, 2009, 03:01 PM
#36
Michael,
Thanks for your help and guidance. Just to let everyone know, I just ordered my FMIC from ETS and I got the 3.8" Garrett core! It is the same core that Chad uses for the CBRD FMIC but I like ETS's end tanks better and you can't beat the 699 shipped for the Garrett core. I'll have dyno results soon.
Mikey
Thanks for your help and guidance. Just to let everyone know, I just ordered my FMIC from ETS and I got the 3.8" Garrett core! It is the same core that Chad uses for the CBRD FMIC but I like ETS's end tanks better and you can't beat the 699 shipped for the Garrett core. I'll have dyno results soon.
Mikey
Aug 27, 2009, 04:34 PM
#39
So ETS how much difference would it be from a 3.5in garrett to a 3.8in garrett. $100 price difference but only .3in thicker and is that thickness really needed atleast at the 400whp level?
Endtank design have you tested whether or not it utilizes the whole core? I have been very interested in a 3.5in garrett setup from you but endtank design is important to me as I road race my car. I want something that utilizes the whole core well and just not the bottom half like some of the bottom inlet/outlet intercoolers do. If you could give me a good explanation on that good chance you would sway me from AMS who is dragging their feet on their new intercooler.
Endtank design have you tested whether or not it utilizes the whole core? I have been very interested in a 3.5in garrett setup from you but endtank design is important to me as I road race my car. I want something that utilizes the whole core well and just not the bottom half like some of the bottom inlet/outlet intercoolers do. If you could give me a good explanation on that good chance you would sway me from AMS who is dragging their feet on their new intercooler.
Aug 27, 2009, 05:06 PM
#40
here is a before and after going from the ets3.5 inch core to the garret core the conditions are listed in the post above.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...k-ftw-scan.jpg
the only change was the intercooler.
jeff
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...k-ftw-scan.jpg
the only change was the intercooler.
jeff
Aug 27, 2009, 05:36 PM
#42
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i dont think bolting an intercooler on any ones car will make a major difference in the way it performs. changing the intercooler isnt like putting on a new turbo, where the piece you add actually makes the power. changing the i/c makes the intake temps cooler because it is a more effecient product. [B] lower intake temps alone wont make the power by itself, you have to tune to take advantage [/B]of it. i think you would understand this mike.
the ets core was maxxed out on my car. i could not add more boost or timing or lean out the afr with out knock. once the garret core was added the intake temps dropped drastically enough for me to be able to add 1.7 pounds of boost, more timing through out the band andit made the afr richer up top so i was able to lean it back out alll with out knock. so yes the retune made the power but it would not have been possible to to even think about that tune on the ets core it would killed my motor.
like i stated a few posts back just swithching the the garret core for the ets core it made the same power on less boost(lost some preasure because its bigger), and it richened up the afr out up top. the graph i posted was the final product, im sorry i didnt get my tuner to print a dyno plot after every pull i didnt think it was needed.
maybe if i relate to a different product you guys will see the light. if you are running your stock blow off valve at 35 psi and it is leeking, then the turbo has to work harder to produce the same amount of psi to compensate for the leeking blow off valve, thus blowing hotter air being less effecient.
simply change your blow off valve to one that can hold 35 psi and now your car will make more power at 35 psi then before by allowing you to run more boost, and timing because the turbo isnt working as hard to produce the same amount of boost, thus a cooler charge and more effecient.
so changing the blow off valve didnt make power but yet in the end you were able to get more power out of you set up because its more effecient. the intercooler works the same way!
jeff
Last edited by atkins; Aug 27, 2009 at 05:44 PM.
Aug 27, 2009, 05:44 PM
#43
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here the link at buchur i was talking about http://buschurforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20445
nothing in there about a video
jeff
nothing in there about a video
jeff
Aug 27, 2009, 05:46 PM
#44
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car has been through a full track day at english town in 92 degree weather with no issues at all and is driven daily. no cooling problems here.
Aug 27, 2009, 05:47 PM
#45
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Michael,
Thanks for your help and guidance. Just to let everyone know, I just ordered my FMIC from ETS and I got the 3.8" Garrett core! It is the same core that Chad uses for the CBRD FMIC but I like ETS's end tanks better and you can't beat the 699 shipped for the Garrett core. I'll have dyno results soon.
Mikey
Thanks for your help and guidance. Just to let everyone know, I just ordered my FMIC from ETS and I got the 3.8" Garrett core! It is the same core that Chad uses for the CBRD FMIC but I like ETS's end tanks better and you can't beat the 699 shipped for the Garrett core. I'll have dyno results soon.
Mikey
good choice, mike that is a great deal on a garret core!
jeff