The best forged piston money can buy!!!
Sep 17, 2009, 05:31 PM
#20
Hello,
I am just wondering...
Which one is the best forged piston money can buy for heavily built Evo IX?
I was thinking that this piston have to be 2618 and with ofset pin (more timing)... or not???
I am talking about pistons for 700+++ whp Evo's.
Too many brands out there... but it must be something that is the best...
I am just wondering...
Which one is the best forged piston money can buy for heavily built Evo IX?
I was thinking that this piston have to be 2618 and with ofset pin (more timing)... or not???
I am talking about pistons for 700+++ whp Evo's.
Too many brands out there... but it must be something that is the best...
http://ipp.nasa.gov/innovation/Innovation54/complic.htm
Sep 17, 2009, 05:40 PM
#22
This could quite possibly be one of the worst threads I have ever seen for answers, sorry if it offends any of you that answered.
I have been building 4g63's for nearly 20 years. Not sure when I built the first one but very-very early 1990's. I've used Venolia, Ross, Wiseco, JE, Manley, CP and I am sure a few others I can't remember. None of them were "bad". I have never seen a pistons just fall apart into powder, so it's not like any of them are "bad".
Most of what has been recommended will hold up to 700 hp no problem. Is that what you want? You want one that is good for 700 hp, what about RPM? I can tell you the higher you rev the engine the more problems are going to show up in a piston.
I currently build about 85% of our engines with JE's, custom part numbers WE have developed with JE over many years and maybe a hundred changes. We use Wiseco for some builds and the rest of the majority is Manley.
You are asking for an offset pin, OK, big deal honestly. ANYONE of those manufacturers can build an offset pin for you.
I guess my point is, any piston company can make a piston. What you and anyone else building an really high end engine is going to need though is a custom part number with some development behind it, not just some shelf piston that is offered.
In the last year alone I bet we've changed piston designs 15 times. Our shelf pistons right now I think are the best, strongest piston you can buy for an EVO, this referring to our JE's or Manley's. Manley just made some major changes AGAIN for us and are running a batch of 40 of the new parts for us now.
I was blind in the past as obviously most people are to how many things can be done to a piston to make it stronger, lighter and better at getting the combustion process done.
There's more to it than "Who makes a piston in XXX alloy that will make 700 hp with an offset pin." The answer to that is, "50 peoples opinions referring to what they use."
So we are clear, I don't care if I sell a set of pistons, just chiming in on the subject because of the answers given.
I have been building 4g63's for nearly 20 years. Not sure when I built the first one but very-very early 1990's. I've used Venolia, Ross, Wiseco, JE, Manley, CP and I am sure a few others I can't remember. None of them were "bad". I have never seen a pistons just fall apart into powder, so it's not like any of them are "bad".
Most of what has been recommended will hold up to 700 hp no problem. Is that what you want? You want one that is good for 700 hp, what about RPM? I can tell you the higher you rev the engine the more problems are going to show up in a piston.
I currently build about 85% of our engines with JE's, custom part numbers WE have developed with JE over many years and maybe a hundred changes. We use Wiseco for some builds and the rest of the majority is Manley.
You are asking for an offset pin, OK, big deal honestly. ANYONE of those manufacturers can build an offset pin for you.
I guess my point is, any piston company can make a piston. What you and anyone else building an really high end engine is going to need though is a custom part number with some development behind it, not just some shelf piston that is offered.
In the last year alone I bet we've changed piston designs 15 times. Our shelf pistons right now I think are the best, strongest piston you can buy for an EVO, this referring to our JE's or Manley's. Manley just made some major changes AGAIN for us and are running a batch of 40 of the new parts for us now.
I was blind in the past as obviously most people are to how many things can be done to a piston to make it stronger, lighter and better at getting the combustion process done.
There's more to it than "Who makes a piston in XXX alloy that will make 700 hp with an offset pin." The answer to that is, "50 peoples opinions referring to what they use."
So we are clear, I don't care if I sell a set of pistons, just chiming in on the subject because of the answers given.
Sep 17, 2009, 06:01 PM
#25
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This could quite possibly be one of the worst threads I have ever seen for answers, sorry if it offends any of you that answered.
I have been building 4g63's for nearly 20 years. Not sure when I built the first one but very-very early 1990's. I've used Venolia, Ross, Wiseco, JE, Manley, CP and I am sure a few others I can't remember. None of them were "bad". I have never seen a pistons just fall apart into powder, so it's not like any of them are "bad".
Most of what has been recommended will hold up to 700 hp no problem. Is that what you want? You want one that is good for 700 hp, what about RPM? I can tell you the higher you rev the engine the more problems are going to show up in a piston.
I currently build about 85% of our engines with JE's, custom part numbers WE have developed with JE over many years and maybe a hundred changes. We use Wiseco for some builds and the rest of the majority is Manley.
You are asking for an offset pin, OK, big deal honestly. ANYONE of those manufacturers can build an offset pin for you.
I guess my point is, any piston company can make a piston. What you and anyone else building an really high end engine is going to need though is a custom part number with some development behind it, not just some shelf piston that is offered.
In the last year alone I bet we've changed piston designs 15 times. Our shelf pistons right now I think are the best, strongest piston you can buy for an EVO, this referring to our JE's or Manley's. Manley just made some major changes AGAIN for us and are running a batch of 40 of the new parts for us now.
I was blind in the past as obviously most people are to how many things can be done to a piston to make it stronger, lighter and better at getting the combustion process done.
There's more to it than "Who makes a piston in XXX alloy that will make 700 hp with an offset pin." The answer to that is, "50 peoples opinions referring to what they use."
So we are clear, I don't care if I sell a set of pistons, just chiming in on the subject because of the answers given.
I have been building 4g63's for nearly 20 years. Not sure when I built the first one but very-very early 1990's. I've used Venolia, Ross, Wiseco, JE, Manley, CP and I am sure a few others I can't remember. None of them were "bad". I have never seen a pistons just fall apart into powder, so it's not like any of them are "bad".
Most of what has been recommended will hold up to 700 hp no problem. Is that what you want? You want one that is good for 700 hp, what about RPM? I can tell you the higher you rev the engine the more problems are going to show up in a piston.
I currently build about 85% of our engines with JE's, custom part numbers WE have developed with JE over many years and maybe a hundred changes. We use Wiseco for some builds and the rest of the majority is Manley.
You are asking for an offset pin, OK, big deal honestly. ANYONE of those manufacturers can build an offset pin for you.
I guess my point is, any piston company can make a piston. What you and anyone else building an really high end engine is going to need though is a custom part number with some development behind it, not just some shelf piston that is offered.
In the last year alone I bet we've changed piston designs 15 times. Our shelf pistons right now I think are the best, strongest piston you can buy for an EVO, this referring to our JE's or Manley's. Manley just made some major changes AGAIN for us and are running a batch of 40 of the new parts for us now.
I was blind in the past as obviously most people are to how many things can be done to a piston to make it stronger, lighter and better at getting the combustion process done.
There's more to it than "Who makes a piston in XXX alloy that will make 700 hp with an offset pin." The answer to that is, "50 peoples opinions referring to what they use."
So we are clear, I don't care if I sell a set of pistons, just chiming in on the subject because of the answers given.
Sep 17, 2009, 08:59 PM
#26
David is 100% correct. Any piston manufacturer that is still around today can make a piston that will start, run an drive (aka work). The difference between the brands is in the details. Some manufacturers just "make" a piston and put it in their catalog and that's it. These pistons will work, but aren't the best design. Other brands, such as JE with David Buschur, have worked back and forth together to make constant improvements. This is why David has a very solid design that you can be certain you'll be happy with.
You would be amazed at the differences in engineering and manufacturing between piston brands. There is a reason why NO PROFESSIONAL racing program uses Arias, Ross and Venolia pistons. By professional, I mean a team that invests a $1 million PER RACE or more. These teams CANNOT afford stupid failures such as one caused by a poorly designed piston.
Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK8G4crsOnA
You would be amazed at the differences in engineering and manufacturing between piston brands. There is a reason why NO PROFESSIONAL racing program uses Arias, Ross and Venolia pistons. By professional, I mean a team that invests a $1 million PER RACE or more. These teams CANNOT afford stupid failures such as one caused by a poorly designed piston.
Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK8G4crsOnA
Sep 17, 2009, 09:03 PM
#27
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David hit the nail on the head on this one. More factors to consider are compression the size of your motor, and what kind of fuel it is going to be running.
Sep 18, 2009, 06:15 AM
#29
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Sep 24, 2009, 06:28 AM
#30
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My choice for pistons is between JE Buschur spec and CP pistons.
Cosworth is out because of the 86mm that make me worry about the 1mm wicker cylinder wall.
The top RPM for my motor will be 10000.
Boost pressure from a GT35 to GT42 will be from 35 psi (100 oct gas) to 50 psi (race gas) for drag races.
I google the CP pistons and I found out that the have many add on for their pistons like...
-Wrist Pins
-Crown Coating
-Skirt Coating
-Lateral Gas Ports
-Vertical Gas Ports
-CP Groove
-Oil Support Rails
-Plunge Valve Reliefs
-CNC Underhead Milling (MIL)
-Window Mill Box
-Window Mill Skirts
All the above add ons can double or triple the price ofcourse....
Do I need them all?
What is the difference?
Cosworth is out because of the 86mm that make me worry about the 1mm wicker cylinder wall.
The top RPM for my motor will be 10000.
Boost pressure from a GT35 to GT42 will be from 35 psi (100 oct gas) to 50 psi (race gas) for drag races.
I google the CP pistons and I found out that the have many add on for their pistons like...
-Wrist Pins
-Crown Coating
-Skirt Coating
-Lateral Gas Ports
-Vertical Gas Ports
-CP Groove
-Oil Support Rails
-Plunge Valve Reliefs
-CNC Underhead Milling (MIL)
-Window Mill Box
-Window Mill Skirts
All the above add ons can double or triple the price ofcourse....
Do I need them all?
What is the difference?