2010 Borg Warner Airwerks Turbo catalog
Nov 24, 2009, 06:45 PM
#31
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I made 479.5 whp and 443 ft/lbs on straight pump gas at 28psi with an S258 in the BEP T3 .70 hotside, which is a pretty big laggy housing for that size turbo. This was also on a DSM, bone stock 6 bolt (7.8:1 compression), stock head, mild FP2 cams on stock valvetrain, stock intake manifold (LOOONG runners).
Nov 24, 2009, 07:05 PM
#32
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I made 479.5 whp and 443 ft/lbs on straight pump gas at 28psi with an S258 in the BEP T3 .70 hotside, which is a pretty big laggy housing for that size turbo. This was also on a DSM, bone stock 6 bolt (7.8:1 compression), stock head, mild FP2 cams on stock valvetrain, stock intake manifold (LOOONG runners).
Last edited by lwpz; Nov 24, 2009 at 07:18 PM.
Nov 24, 2009, 07:19 PM
#33
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Yeah, i'd imagine the divided housing would spool alot quicker. This setup was definitely a bit of a mis-match for the minimal supporting mods I had. I previously ran an S256 with the much smaller BEP .55 DSM bolt-on housing, and it spooled almost 1000 rpms faster while giving me pretty similar power at 25-30psi. I think the .76 divided T3 would have given me a nice mix of the smaller setup's spool with the larger T3's top end, but unfortunately there wasn't a readily available divided T3 manifold for DSMs at that time. Since then, we've used my friend's car to have JMFab develop a divided T3 mani for DSMs (the car that made 707whp that I referenced earlier). I attached a dyno graph of my S258's pull.
Nov 25, 2009, 07:28 AM
#35
heres a pic of some custom turbochargers BW-Airwerks is mfg for us:
thats the 88-75, my personal favorite BW Twinscroll turbo... I use it on my personal car right now, 91octane pump is making 591whp@19psi:
that is correct -- all of these BW Airwerks turbos work best in twinscroll/divided configuration.
thats the 88-75, my personal favorite BW Twinscroll turbo... I use it on my personal car right now, 91octane pump is making 591whp@19psi:
that is correct -- all of these BW Airwerks turbos work best in twinscroll/divided configuration.
Last edited by Geoff Raicer; Nov 25, 2009 at 07:58 AM.
Nov 25, 2009, 07:47 AM
#36
a good post to read for anyone interested in BW's take on the billett wheels: http://honda-tech.com/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=98
In general... yes, we can make anything if you want to pay for it 
In the performance and/or racing world though, there is really no benefit to using a "billet" CW other than it's shiny. Basically, billet, or FMW (Forged Milled Wheel) compressors came about due to OE applications requiring them. When a turbo is constantly being cycled from high speed to low speed, the wheel becomes fatigued and can eventually lead to a hub burst (CW splits in half). Imagine the compressor acting like a big drag slick like you see on top fuel cars; during the burnout, you can see them get skinny and "grow" in height... On a much smaller scale, the CW sees this same process over and over again, and over time this weakens the wheel, eventually leading to a fracture and possibly a hub burst. Now ask your self how many times you've seen a race car's CW split in half... I have never, and I've seen a LOT of failures. Even the billet aluminum isn't enough in some newer applications and we've turned to titanium which in its FMW form, is nearly indestructible. I've heard all the propaganda surrounding the billet wheel myths: higher boost capability, higher flow, higher efficiency, etc... The higher boost capability is the only one which is true, but not because it's machined and not true for racing use. OE diesel applications using FMW compressors can run higher boost pressures more reliably simply because they are less susceptible to fatigue as they're cycled from higher speeds (required to make more pressure) to low speeds.
So, why would anyone offer a billet wheel to the racing/performance market? Couple/three reasons:
- Some people just want them because they look really nice... and are willing to pay the cost difference.
- Because it already exists in an OE production application and it's easily installed into performance turbos, sometimes they're even interchangeable with existing cast wheels.
- Applications where a cast wheel does not exist (maybe a larger inducer is needed) or production volumes are believed to never be high enough to justify tooling costs.
Are they cheaper than cast wheels? ...NO. Even in high production volumes, a billet wheel will always be more expensive than a cast wheel. However, if a company wants to make a compressor all their own (not using an existing "big" turbo manufacture's wheel ie. BW, Garrett, Holset) it would most likely be cheaper as they would have to tool up to make all the cast versions. If a company makes a mistake in the design of a billet wheel, they can simply keep changing the program until they get something that works... The OE manufacturer does all the development work up front to arrive at the best possible design for what's needed. Once the design is finalized, a "master wheel" is machined and used for the tooling master... that's right, all cast wheels get their start from a very nice billet wheel that when tooling is made, creates the same exact performance characteristics in a much cheaper and faster to produce cast version.
Phew... Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but hopefully this helps explain why billet wheels exist. Short version is billet wheels are no better than cast wheels for any performance or racing application I'm aware of... but they sure do look great!
In the performance and/or racing world though, there is really no benefit to using a "billet" CW other than it's shiny. Basically, billet, or FMW (Forged Milled Wheel) compressors came about due to OE applications requiring them. When a turbo is constantly being cycled from high speed to low speed, the wheel becomes fatigued and can eventually lead to a hub burst (CW splits in half). Imagine the compressor acting like a big drag slick like you see on top fuel cars; during the burnout, you can see them get skinny and "grow" in height... On a much smaller scale, the CW sees this same process over and over again, and over time this weakens the wheel, eventually leading to a fracture and possibly a hub burst. Now ask your self how many times you've seen a race car's CW split in half... I have never, and I've seen a LOT of failures. Even the billet aluminum isn't enough in some newer applications and we've turned to titanium which in its FMW form, is nearly indestructible. I've heard all the propaganda surrounding the billet wheel myths: higher boost capability, higher flow, higher efficiency, etc... The higher boost capability is the only one which is true, but not because it's machined and not true for racing use. OE diesel applications using FMW compressors can run higher boost pressures more reliably simply because they are less susceptible to fatigue as they're cycled from higher speeds (required to make more pressure) to low speeds.So, why would anyone offer a billet wheel to the racing/performance market? Couple/three reasons:
- Some people just want them because they look really nice... and are willing to pay the cost difference.
- Because it already exists in an OE production application and it's easily installed into performance turbos, sometimes they're even interchangeable with existing cast wheels.
- Applications where a cast wheel does not exist (maybe a larger inducer is needed) or production volumes are believed to never be high enough to justify tooling costs.
Are they cheaper than cast wheels? ...NO. Even in high production volumes, a billet wheel will always be more expensive than a cast wheel. However, if a company wants to make a compressor all their own (not using an existing "big" turbo manufacture's wheel ie. BW, Garrett, Holset) it would most likely be cheaper as they would have to tool up to make all the cast versions. If a company makes a mistake in the design of a billet wheel, they can simply keep changing the program until they get something that works... The OE manufacturer does all the development work up front to arrive at the best possible design for what's needed. Once the design is finalized, a "master wheel" is machined and used for the tooling master... that's right, all cast wheels get their start from a very nice billet wheel that when tooling is made, creates the same exact performance characteristics in a much cheaper and faster to produce cast version.
Phew... Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but hopefully this helps explain why billet wheels exist. Short version is billet wheels are no better than cast wheels for any performance or racing application I'm aware of... but they sure do look great!
Nov 25, 2009, 08:47 AM
#39
im sure, i been tellin people around here forever that the BW turbos are FILTHY, kinda funny how everytime we go to the track and theirs a old honda or DSM running like mid-low 9's and EVERY single one is on a oldschool BW turbo, cant even imagine what these new ones will do
Nov 25, 2009, 11:36 PM
#45
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What kind of setup do you have on that machine, it seems to breathe quite well, i love the fact that you don't need insane boost to reach good airflow, the whole packet seems to be setup quite well. So please: engine specs!