I heard this stuff is great for keeping the combustion chamber cool / boosting octain

anyone have any experience with this type of set up or knowlege of it?

 

take a look at dynamic racing, it's a 3si site and these guys know their stuff.. also www.3si.org has a large database of the alky injection and propane injection system.

Otherwise, alky injection basicly works similar to nitrous, it lowers the combustion temp and in turn the car requires less octane and less fuel to create the same power. There are many VR4's running 20psi to redline on pump gas and stock injectors. Propane injection seems to be a better setup however having the container in the car raises some safety issues. go to www.3si.org in the forums and do a search on the topic.

 

liquid propane injection? i guess that would cool as well as increase octain,,
plus it wouldnt strip the lube like alcohol would right?

and its fairly cheap too

couldnt you just mount the tank in the trunk?

i'll check the site out, thanks

 

bah, those guys are practicaly all NA, or running 10 PSI or some crap,,

not helpful

 

? are you kidding me?

The fast stealth is a member on those sites running 10's at 3600ft elevation, those guys know their s*** and are very friendly. You have to click on the 3000 stealth international section sorry i forgot to mention that. Porpane is better to run becasue it contains no water like alky does but the problem is no VTA BOV's and if the take is ever in an accident, well lets sjut say a guy demonstrated waht it would look like. HELLA exploded

 

here is a direct link http://www.3si.org/portal/forums/for....php?forumid=1

 

I think that Works is about to introduce their water injection unit for our Evo, which will be interesting to see.

Wilson

 

Ok, now again, how is that similair to nitrous?

Sean

 

it does the same thing as nitrous, boosts octane and cools the combuttion chamber, but nitro is like 50x better (as well as 50x more expensive) but nitro generaly boosts your HP so much that you only want to use it on certainocations (as well as the fact that it costs so much to fill)

alchy / propane injection does the same thing, cools the combustion chamber (preventing detionation, wich is normaly done by your fuel system dumping extra gass causing it to run very rich, this way you can safely lean it out) but alch / propane doesnt boost the octane as much or cost as much, so you can run it all the time.

I know what it does, all the theroy behind it, i just want to look at some good systems, and get tuning advice

 

Alky/H20 injection only share the same charactics with Nitrous in that they both lower combustion chamber temps.

Alky/H20 does not add add'l O2 to the combustion chamber, wheras Nitrous does. Thats why you need to pump add'l fuel into the chamber, when running 'naws'

That's the fundamental differences/similiarties.

Here's a few h20 injection vendors that I've known ppl to have success with:
http://www.snowperformance.net/
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/


Sean

 

http://www.smcenterprises.com/injector_kit.htm

thats what ive seen , good because its 100 PSI, plus it has good sensors for when to spray more or less. but gODAMN its ugly



basicaly here is what i've found out about alch injection

Alcohol is a safe additive to use. Since the 1960s, all cars have been manufactured with alcohol resistant hoses, connections, O-rings, seals, and plastics. This was necessary because of the popular use of alcohol base gas line antifreeze additives, and the use of ethanol mixes in automotive fuel. But, the biggest advantage of alcohol injection is that it is an "on demand" system for both the street, or strip. Especially for street applications, the realities are that, for most drivers, less than 2 percent of the time high turbo boost is actually used. So, the argument becomes: Why have the fuel tank filled with high price race gas, or add a couple of gallons of toluene with every tank, when the higher knock threshold protection is only needed for those relatively brief events closer to WOT? Tuning with alcohol injection only for those boost levels when it's really needed to raise the knock threshold (higher octane equivalent) also accounts for the small quantities of alcohol consumed.

Tuning to the edge of the envelope quickly bumps into the knock limits of the fuel being used. Alcohol injection can increase the knock threshold of 91-93 octane pump gas to the equivalent of the range of 104-108 octane. The relatively small amounts of alcohol injected doesn't increase the total fuel energy much, and only adds small amounts of additional oxygen. While methanol alcohol has an equivalent octane rating of 108, the main effect is the result of large, rapid evaporatative cooling of the intake air. Also, small amounts of water added help control the flame front in the cylinder for smooth, controlled cylinder pressure rises at ignition (the opposite of knock). This effect also shows up as a very significant reduction of 60 to 100 degees (F) of the EGT at WOT. The cooling effect of alcohol is also used on supercharged (up to 8 pounds boost) engines with no IC. The effect is like adding an intercooler. Alcohol injection is a very mature technology that has been in widespread use, especially since WWII, with lots of experience, and data availble. There is no need to re-invent the wheel, or plow any new ground. It is a reliable, cost effective way, to raise the knock threshold of the fuel being used. So, the answer to the question: "Why alcohol injection?" is simply "Why not?"


There are many choices of types of alcohol, and possible mixes of 10 to 50 percent water added that can be used. The prefered Methanol alcohol is readily available by the gallon in paint, hardware, and lumber yards. Isopropanol, such as rubbing alcohol, or the premium gas line dryer, Iso-Heet, will work. Also, Ethanol, the alcohol of beer and wines, which is also the additive for "oxygenated" pump gas works. 190 proof Everclear alcohol from the liquor store works really well (a bit expensive though). Even winter windshield washer concentrate, which contains up to 50 percent methanol, can be used for an emergency refill. Depending on the setting of the turn on threshold of the pump, and how much is being pumped, a one quart tank should last about 500 miles of normal driving. Of course, WOT race applications at the track will consume the alcohol at a much faster rate. But, we still are not talking about large quantities of alcohol being required for most uses. There are many variables, such as your engine modifications, that come into play; but fine tuning certainly has the potential HP gains as tuning with race gas, or installing a 50 Shot NOS system.

 

Your dumb, Im sorry, learn how nitrous makes power before you compare it to water injection.

 

Yeah, from what Ive read and learned... The power from NOS comes from the extra O2 freed up during the separation of Nitrious Oxide.

What makes NOS safe is that combustion(explosition as a trigger) is required before Nitrious Oxide can seperate - freeing the O2 exactly at the time of combustion. Hence, detonation is avoided.

This of course assume that your timing is correct.

 

yeah, that sounds about right. I would think, although i have no way to verify this, that if you injected straight oxygen, or somethine that seperated prior to combustion, you woulld probably blow your intake manifold apart and get uncontrolled burn everywhere. Something more dramatic then run of the mill detonation, might be amusing...

Sean

 

he's dumb? I think he actually has the idea at hand.... NOS is very risky and can damage cylinders if not tuned. Alky on the other hand cant, only trouble would be if you pump way too much and hydro lock the motor but thats not too easy.