Scott, You and I both know that Robert can do this. Hell Robert could do almost anything... The problem is that FP can't come out with all these turbos at once, nor came they come out with the best turbo first. That would hurt business in the long run. I plan to hold out for a DBB stock appearing turbo in the future. I for one believe that it will happen. I personally believe that a DBB Black would be dope. How about a DBB Black on a High compression 2.2 Long Rod or a High Compression 2.4L... Can I hear someone say 600+awhp with stock like spool?

Mikey

 

450+ WHP on pump gas is not silly sir, the red does it, the black should do it easier and if it spools the SAME as a red, well then why the hell not? People run 35R's on their stock bottom end and run very fast.


I plan on running this turbo, the spoolup looks like 50RPM's slower not anything to be concerned with. A FP red can and has hit 420-450WHP Dynojet on 93 Octane. Time for a Black turbo and then grow with it down the road. But why not run this bad boy, pump gas, 27PSI?

 

The spool is not the same. It's true that in the graph shown in the 1st page the spool difference is abt only 100rpm, but we learned later that the fp black run was done in 4th gear, whereas the fp red run was done in 3rd gear. That is worth abt 200rpm. Accordingly, a more accurate statement would be that the spool difference is abt 250-300 rpm between these turbo's.

Don't forget that the 40whp power difference occurs when both turbo's are MAXED OUT. I wouldn't be surprised if the power difference at, say 30psi, pump gas, is 20-30 whp.

To sum it up, if you run your car as a DD on 93 oct and 30 psi, don't be surprised if you see abt 20-30whp gain and 300rpm slower spool going from the red to the black.

IMO, if you are in for a new turbo, the fp black is a good option (if you don't mind the extra lag), but if you already have the fp red, it's not worth the upgrade.

 

The black was done in 4th? I thought what we learned was the higher whp/wtq numbers mentioned regarding the red was done in 4th, whereas the first graph was when both were in 3rd.

 

^^Nop. 1st page graph: Fp black 4th gear, Fp red 3rd gear (at least from what i gathered)

That's why DB later on said it's more accurate to compare 537whp (fp black) to 497whp (fp red), which is when the fp red was ran in 4th gear

 

Weird - the graph actually showed 3rd gear (written on the bottom). But you're right, there is mention of 4th gear pulls but not sure if they meant on the red or the black (post 29, and also the owner's post on page 8 somewhere).

I guess the best data point is the owner mentioning he can't feel the difference in spool between the red and black.

 

When he ran he red on the customers car before hand it was donw in fourth and his bov was flipped to stop the leak. That is when you saw the 497hp 500+ ft lbs. The graphs on the first page are both done in 3rd gear he said.

 

why make a new turbo when the FPred still fail left and right on road racing evos?

 

Have you seen any fail that are running the oil line to the oil filter housing? All of the failures I've heard about had the feed line to the OEM location.

 

Yup, i'm lost too. Maybe DB or the owner can clarify...
As for the original owner not noticing the spool difference, well some people are able to notice 100rpm spool difference, and some others won't be able to notice 400rpm! depends if you road race, drag race, etc... for example, i was able to notice the lag difference going from a stock i/m & tb to a ported i/m & 65mm tb...

 

 

I tried my best to clear things up in post #112.

From what I have seen it can be compaired this way:

4th gear FP Red - 42 psi - IMO unsafe air/fuels = 497 whp / 507 ft/lb

4th gear FP Black - 40 psi - safe tune = 550 whp / 529 whp

SO....at similar boost (higher on the Red actually) but different tunes the FP Black made +53 whp and +22 ft/lb more then the Red. The graph/dyno posted on post #1 was were both done in 3rd gear.

 

Edited. ^^ In this case 40-50whp for only 100rpm of spool difference sounds GREAT.

Tks

 

Can't wait to see some more set up's with this turbo.

I can see where DB is saying that you can run this turbo on a stock bottom end just don't run 40 psi.
Ok how many of you really are running 40psi on a DD? I know not everyone. Because some of us don't have E85 at the pump. Most people are running 30-35psi and that right their is with 93oct/Meth. With stright 93 oct what is the max boost can run? (25-28psi??)

With my car running 93oct/Meth and boosting 30-35psi or even a tiny bit lower. What would be a rough estment on HP/TQ? Is their some kind of math to figure it out. I know a lot that people post about their max boost levels are just spikes and then they level off a few psi from the spike.

 

I hope people don't start making "black power" stickers.

If only I had the money, I'd be all over one of these right now.