BR presents the new FP BLACK HTA82!
Oct 21, 2009 | 09:26 AM
#181
Will they benefit from the red? Sure. But they would further benefit from the Black right?
At the current price point, comparing new to new, I can't fathom why anyone would buy the Red over the Black.
Edit: I suppose if someone was REALLY **** about spool, they may put more stock in the 200 RPM of spool difference than I would.
At the current price point, comparing new to new, I can't fathom why anyone would buy the Red over the Black.
Edit: I suppose if someone was REALLY **** about spool, they may put more stock in the 200 RPM of spool difference than I would.
Just like the green vs the red.. The red starts to show HP pickup at 25psi or so where the green makes great power at 20psi.. The black might not make lb for lb more power at 20-25psi where a guy with stock motor wants to be at.. also the black is laggier.. so i believe unless testing proves otherwise that there will be a market for the red if your not looking to make 500-600+ dynojet HP..
Mike
Oct 21, 2009 | 09:27 AM
#182
Oct 21, 2009 | 09:46 AM
#184
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From: Raleigh, Transplanted from Toronto, Canada
The spool is not the same. It's true that in the graph shown in the 1st page the spool difference is abt only 100rpm, but we learned later that the fp black run was done in 4th gear, whereas the fp red run was done in 3rd gear. That is worth abt 200rpm. Accordingly, a more accurate statement would be that the spool difference is abt 250-300 rpm between these turbo's.
Don't forget that the 40whp power difference occurs when both turbo's are MAXED OUT. I wouldn't be surprised if the power difference at, say 30psi, pump gas, is 20-30 whp.
To sum it up, if you run your car as a DD on 93 oct and 30 psi, don't be surprised if you see abt 20-30whp gain and 300rpm slower spool going from the red to the black.
IMO, if you are in for a new turbo, the fp black is a good option (if you don't mind the extra lag), but if you already have the fp red, it's not worth the upgrade.
Don't forget that the 40whp power difference occurs when both turbo's are MAXED OUT. I wouldn't be surprised if the power difference at, say 30psi, pump gas, is 20-30 whp.
To sum it up, if you run your car as a DD on 93 oct and 30 psi, don't be surprised if you see abt 20-30whp gain and 300rpm slower spool going from the red to the black.
IMO, if you are in for a new turbo, the fp black is a good option (if you don't mind the extra lag), but if you already have the fp red, it's not worth the upgrade.
If I could get a red or Green for cheap because of the rush for Black then I wouldn't be mad. LOL.
Last edited by SmurfZilla; Oct 21, 2009 at 09:57 AM.
Oct 21, 2009 | 10:13 AM
#185
Pretty sure the Green hasn't sold for beans since the Red came out, people here aren't interested in making "less" power. Same thing will happen now to the Red. Of course this is just what I think.
Black looks to be a nice unit though.
Black looks to be a nice unit though.
Oct 21, 2009 | 10:23 AM
#186
The spool is not the same. It's true that in the graph shown in the 1st page the spool difference is abt only 100rpm, but we learned later that the fp black run was done in 4th gear, whereas the fp red run was done in 3rd gear. That is worth abt 200rpm. Accordingly, a more accurate statement would be that the spool difference is abt 250-300 rpm between these turbo's.
Don't forget that the 40whp power difference occurs when both turbo's are MAXED OUT. I wouldn't be surprised if the power difference at, say 30psi, pump gas, is 20-30 whp.
To sum it up, if you run your car as a DD on 93 oct and 30 psi, don't be surprised if you see abt 20-30whp gain and 300rpm slower spool going from the red to the black.
IMO, if you are in for a new turbo, the fp black is a good option (if you don't mind the extra lag), but if you already have the fp red, it's not worth the upgrade.
Don't forget that the 40whp power difference occurs when both turbo's are MAXED OUT. I wouldn't be surprised if the power difference at, say 30psi, pump gas, is 20-30 whp.
To sum it up, if you run your car as a DD on 93 oct and 30 psi, don't be surprised if you see abt 20-30whp gain and 300rpm slower spool going from the red to the black.
IMO, if you are in for a new turbo, the fp black is a good option (if you don't mind the extra lag), but if you already have the fp red, it's not worth the upgrade.
Oct 21, 2009 | 10:27 AM
#187
Well IMO FP limited the black when they decided to keep the same turbine wheel as the Red... Why they did this I don't know, prob to help keep spool low but it will hurt the Black's topend. Like R/TErnie stated, the red and the blacks graph will meet up by 8k. The turbines the reason for that. So yes the black will make more peak power but will start to die off and cross the path of the Red in higher rpms. So I don't think the black will make much more topend than the red. Say from 7.5-8.5k. This is because FP decided to keep the same turbine wheel. I do believe that if someone ported the **** out of the turbine housing/hotside and extrude honed it, it may help the black out perform the red in higher rpms. just my .02
Oct 21, 2009 | 10:33 AM
#189
At this point it seems as if the Red no longer has it's own nitch in the FP lineup as the black is clearly superior with such little difference in spool it most likely will not be noticed by any owner's butt dyno.
Oct 21, 2009 | 10:37 AM
#190
I know that Robert and Scott are both looking at this thread so could one of you please voice some opinion on this matter?
But like I stated in my post above, Robert may have designed the Black to create more peak power and retain as much spool as possible.
This would be the reason for keeping the Red Turbine wheel, though the Black will suffer out the top... Mikey
Oct 21, 2009 | 10:42 AM
#191
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 697
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From: Mitchigan
40psi to make low 500whp???? I'm good on that, it would be less stress on the engine to just have a larger turbo; yes the spool is great, but I would rather just shift
ok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
ok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
Oct 21, 2009 | 10:46 AM
#194
40psi to make low 500whp???? I'm good on that, it would be less stress on the engine to just have a larger turbo; yes the spool is great, but I would rather just shift
ok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
ok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
Oct 21, 2009 | 10:47 AM
#195
40psi to make low 500whp???? I'm good on that, it would be less stress on the engine to just have a larger turbo; yes the spool is great, but I would rather just shift
ok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
ok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
