How not to install a CBRD radiator.... and, well.... everything I guess.
Nov 2, 2009, 01:49 PM
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How not to install a CBRD radiator.... and, well.... everything I guess.
I received a call from a client of ours who recently ordered one of our 1.25" Racing Radiators for use in his car with his new build. He called because it was leaking.. which I thought was odd. I asked a few questions about the install, asking about physical damage, etc. He then proceeded to tell me that the fan, when running, made noise when it's on. I thought that was also odd, and then found out that the shop who installed the rad (and a host of other parts) had moved the fan to the front of the radiator and DIDN'T SECURE IT TO ANYTHING. The client stated he could move the fan around by reaching in with his fingers. At this point in the conversation, I thought it best for him to bring the car to us (on a flatbed no less since it didn't have any coolant in it.)
What we found over the next day of inspection floored us. This was from a "respected" shop in the NorthEast.
What you are about to see is very graphic in nature. Those with a weak stomach should turn away.
Here you can see that the passenger side dump tube is rubbing against the core of the radiator. The car at some point has had the rad support adjusted, however, the installing shop never took the time to clock the WG or the dump to provide adequate clearance.
The turbo kit is produced by our friends at JM Fabrication whom we work closely with... in our opinion one of if the not THE best fabrication shops available to us in the industry. JMF designed their twin-scroll kit to work with the stock rad. Our radiator offers more clearance. So it was interesting to us to hear of the issue with fitment. Well... the rad had a hole punched in various tubes as the WG tube was positioned right against it.
All of the vbands were very tight, so nothing appeared to have "slid".
Mark on core from dump tube...
Also, the driver's side dump tube was resting against the lower rad pipe. It hadn't caused any issues, but in time surely would have.
Here you can see the wear on both dump tubes.
Here is how the fan was "mounted". Instead of possibly taking the time to adjust the driver's side dump tube, or maybe use a smaller fan, they just decided to jam it behind the IC and up against the AC condenser. Also, FYI, the fan doesn't do much unless it is mounted flat on the core. The shroud also acts as a duct, and forces air through the core.
And it doesnt appear that the fan was removed and re-installed so it would properly push even if mounted correctly!
You can see here where the blades were rubbing against the AC condenser.
So after we spent a little time making some adjustments, we were able to provide ample clearance for the radiator, and actually, come up with a cool way for the dump tubes to fit so a smaller slimline fan would fit on the back side of the radiator. Amazing what taking a little bit of time does to make sure everything fits properly. The same radiator is in the car for the shots below. No other modifications were made other than adjusting the wastegates.
Also, when the turbo was installed, they didn't use the proper length oil lines, so there is a convoluted mess of lines, zip ties, and fittings that just isn't right. No time was devoted to using the proper fittings so that the turbo system would've been cleanly installed.
A simple M10x1.5 to -4an banjo and custom made SS oil line will be the fix here!!
Nobody took the time to adjust the passenger side WG so that it would clear the ex. manifold. Instead, they took a grinder and ground down the bolt head. You can simply unbolt the underside of the TIAL 44mm's and reclock them.
The LICP was also pretty amazing. Pictures are the only real way to explain what was going on here....
The customer wondered why the wideband wasn't working in the car.
Here are some more "attention to detail" shots. No real explanation needed here.
We typically never "get into it" on the forums, or in business in general. However, we just hate to see someone get "taken" by anyone. We put this out there because we want to help educate people as to what to look for in the work a shop performs. I'm sure the client will chime in here at some point to validate what I've posted. It just sucks for him because it's costing him more money to get another radiator, and have the work done twice.
So there you go... after about 3-4 hours of CBRD love, a new oil line, radiator, and high cfm fan, and she will be as good as new!! oh yeah, we will be recirculating the bov dump also, as the APS is designed to recirc, and we dont care for VTA bov's on the stock ecu regardless!!!
We will certainly post pics of the finished product later this week!!!
Take care,
Caleb
What we found over the next day of inspection floored us. This was from a "respected" shop in the NorthEast.
What you are about to see is very graphic in nature. Those with a weak stomach should turn away.
Here you can see that the passenger side dump tube is rubbing against the core of the radiator. The car at some point has had the rad support adjusted, however, the installing shop never took the time to clock the WG or the dump to provide adequate clearance.
The turbo kit is produced by our friends at JM Fabrication whom we work closely with... in our opinion one of if the not THE best fabrication shops available to us in the industry. JMF designed their twin-scroll kit to work with the stock rad. Our radiator offers more clearance. So it was interesting to us to hear of the issue with fitment. Well... the rad had a hole punched in various tubes as the WG tube was positioned right against it.
All of the vbands were very tight, so nothing appeared to have "slid".
Mark on core from dump tube...
Also, the driver's side dump tube was resting against the lower rad pipe. It hadn't caused any issues, but in time surely would have.
Here you can see the wear on both dump tubes.
Here is how the fan was "mounted". Instead of possibly taking the time to adjust the driver's side dump tube, or maybe use a smaller fan, they just decided to jam it behind the IC and up against the AC condenser. Also, FYI, the fan doesn't do much unless it is mounted flat on the core. The shroud also acts as a duct, and forces air through the core.
And it doesnt appear that the fan was removed and re-installed so it would properly push even if mounted correctly!
You can see here where the blades were rubbing against the AC condenser.
So after we spent a little time making some adjustments, we were able to provide ample clearance for the radiator, and actually, come up with a cool way for the dump tubes to fit so a smaller slimline fan would fit on the back side of the radiator. Amazing what taking a little bit of time does to make sure everything fits properly. The same radiator is in the car for the shots below. No other modifications were made other than adjusting the wastegates.
Also, when the turbo was installed, they didn't use the proper length oil lines, so there is a convoluted mess of lines, zip ties, and fittings that just isn't right. No time was devoted to using the proper fittings so that the turbo system would've been cleanly installed.
A simple M10x1.5 to -4an banjo and custom made SS oil line will be the fix here!!
Nobody took the time to adjust the passenger side WG so that it would clear the ex. manifold. Instead, they took a grinder and ground down the bolt head. You can simply unbolt the underside of the TIAL 44mm's and reclock them.
The LICP was also pretty amazing. Pictures are the only real way to explain what was going on here....
The customer wondered why the wideband wasn't working in the car.
Here are some more "attention to detail" shots. No real explanation needed here.
We typically never "get into it" on the forums, or in business in general. However, we just hate to see someone get "taken" by anyone. We put this out there because we want to help educate people as to what to look for in the work a shop performs. I'm sure the client will chime in here at some point to validate what I've posted. It just sucks for him because it's costing him more money to get another radiator, and have the work done twice.
So there you go... after about 3-4 hours of CBRD love, a new oil line, radiator, and high cfm fan, and she will be as good as new!! oh yeah, we will be recirculating the bov dump also, as the APS is designed to recirc, and we dont care for VTA bov's on the stock ecu regardless!!!
We will certainly post pics of the finished product later this week!!!
Take care,
Caleb
Last edited by CBRD_Caleb; Nov 2, 2009 at 01:52 PM.
Nov 2, 2009, 01:58 PM
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unbelievable what some shops will try to get away with. i cant decide what my favorite part is.. the grinding down on the wg bolt, the ic piping on the zip tied wideband.
for the good of the community, and for a good laugh, will the owner of the car in question PLEASE release the name of the shop
for the good of the community, and for a good laugh, will the owner of the car in question PLEASE release the name of the shop
Nov 2, 2009, 02:00 PM
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HOLY CRAP Caleb!!!! That car was a mess prior to the CBRD touch.. Its never fun to be "taken" by a shop and I can openly say its happened to me! Caleb you guys at CBRD do some nice work and im sure the owner of that car was very happy with the end results. Hats off to you guys at CBRD.
As for my own car, well its soon coming to your shop as i told Chad for some TLC and a tune.. Im looking forward to some nice power gains for you guys..
As for my own car, well its soon coming to your shop as i told Chad for some TLC and a tune.. Im looking forward to some nice power gains for you guys..
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Nov 2, 2009, 02:08 PM
#13
Wow, it's really sad to see that any shop would take such little care in an installation like this. I hope the shop that is responsible is willing to own up to the customer on their mistakes and offer a refund of some sort. Sucks that it has to be done twice.
Nov 2, 2009, 02:23 PM
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