Repeatability of the Dyno Flash - long term study data and dyno sheet
Oct 24, 2003 | 09:19 AM
#61
Eric-
I see what you're saying... But, the power in the 4G63 is also corked. The factory maps given to the ecu are "very tame" and the engine has room for improvement through more agressive tuning.
I see what you're saying... But, the power in the 4G63 is also corked. The factory maps given to the ecu are "very tame" and the engine has room for improvement through more agressive tuning.
Oct 24, 2003 | 09:36 AM
#63
Originally posted by 4-BNGR
Eric-
I see what you're saying... But, the power in the 4G63 is also corked. The factory maps given to the ecu are "very tame" and the engine has room for improvement through more agressive tuning.
Eric-
I see what you're saying... But, the power in the 4G63 is also corked. The factory maps given to the ecu are "very tame" and the engine has room for improvement through more agressive tuning.
What I'm trying to say is that its not the same thing. Yes more power = More heat.
Oct 24, 2003 | 09:38 AM
#64
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Eric -
to respond to your concerns
unlike the other "expert" tuners who are doing ecu upgrades on the EVO - BEFORE I started to sell any products - I worked with Pruven who is a 4g63 expert to push the limits of the stock block and internals safely OVER 500 WHP !!!! With no failure what so ever
AFTER we saw these engines could take that kind of power I decided a 20 - 30 whp upgrade was well within the capacity of the engine
I first toyed with a emanange set up with standard maps - but there was way too much car to car variability to offer such a packakge as a standard item
The reflash has proven to be a totally reliable and repeatable upgrade and we have the a/f's and ign set the way we feel is bnest to make a BIT more power while maintaining stock egts and knock activity lower than stock
Think about this = IF
expert engineers decide after years of evolution on these engines that they want a a/f ratio in the high 9's at full boost as in the stock cars - - - - tHEN how could you in a rational frame of mind insinuate that I am doing something dangerous by erring on the side of caution and leaving the mixture in the mid 10's instead of the high 11's like your buddy Shiv?
It should be clear that a richer mixture is providing more charge cooling and margin of saftey at an expense of a bit lower power
Its really bizare that in yourt misguided attempts to market Vishnu products - of which I understand you are a long standing installation "center" you would make such idiotic claims and observations which really show your total lack of understanding
Isnt it true that Vishnu actually attentuates the Knock signal - or reduces it - to get the same result - thereby just allowing the car to maniuantain slight detonation ??? How good is that for long term reliabliity ??
to respond to your concerns
unlike the other "expert" tuners who are doing ecu upgrades on the EVO - BEFORE I started to sell any products - I worked with Pruven who is a 4g63 expert to push the limits of the stock block and internals safely OVER 500 WHP !!!! With no failure what so ever
AFTER we saw these engines could take that kind of power I decided a 20 - 30 whp upgrade was well within the capacity of the engine
I first toyed with a emanange set up with standard maps - but there was way too much car to car variability to offer such a packakge as a standard item
The reflash has proven to be a totally reliable and repeatable upgrade and we have the a/f's and ign set the way we feel is bnest to make a BIT more power while maintaining stock egts and knock activity lower than stock
Think about this = IF
expert engineers decide after years of evolution on these engines that they want a a/f ratio in the high 9's at full boost as in the stock cars - - - - tHEN how could you in a rational frame of mind insinuate that I am doing something dangerous by erring on the side of caution and leaving the mixture in the mid 10's instead of the high 11's like your buddy Shiv?It should be clear that a richer mixture is providing more charge cooling and margin of saftey at an expense of a bit lower power
Its really bizare that in yourt misguided attempts to market Vishnu products - of which I understand you are a long standing installation "center" you would make such idiotic claims and observations which really show your total lack of understanding
Isnt it true that Vishnu actually attentuates the Knock signal - or reduces it - to get the same result - thereby just allowing the car to maniuantain slight detonation ??? How good is that for long term reliabliity ??
Last edited by DynoFlash; Oct 24, 2003 at 09:40 AM.
Oct 24, 2003 | 09:51 AM
#65
Al you are a Big Fat liar!! Until 2 days ago you had no Idea that the Factory ECU had 2 timing and 2 fuel maps! Shiv had to break it to you now what are you doing to tune those secondary maps?? https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...threadid=44072 Proof that Al is purposfuly LYING!!! AFRs dont come near high 11s!! in fact they are quite resonable. Shiv tunes with det cans!!! Hows that AL do you monitor knock both electronically and through cans?? I thought so
Originally posted by DynoFlash
Eric -
to respond to your concerns
unlike the other "expert" tuners who are doing ecu upgrades on the EVO - BEFORE I started to sell any products - I worked with Pruven who is a 4g63 expert to push the limits of the stock block and internals safely OVER 500 WHP !!!! With no failure what so ever
AFTER we saw these engines could take that kind of power I decided a 20 - 30 whp upgrade was well within the capacity of the engine
I first toyed with a emanange set up with standard maps - but there was way too much car to car variability to offer such a packakge as a standard item
The reflash has proven to be a totally reliable and repeatable upgrade and we have the a/f's and ign set the way we feel is bnest to make a BIT more power while maintaining stock egts and knock activity lower than stock
Think about this = IF expert engineers decide after years of evolution on these engines that they want a a/f ratio in the high 9's at full boost as in the stock cars - - - - tHEN how could you in a rational frame of mind insinuate that I am doing something dangerous by erring on the side of caution and leaving the mixture in the mid 10's instead of the high 11's like your buddy Shiv?
It should be clear that a richer mixture is providing more charge cooling and margin of saftey at an expense of a bit lower power
Its really bizare that in yourt misguided attempts to market Vishnu products - of which I understand you are a long standing installation "center" you would make such idiotic claims and observations which really show your total lack of understanding
Isnt it true that Vishnu actually attentuates the Knock signal - or reduces it - to get the same result - thereby just allowing the car to maniuantain slight detonation ??? How good is that for long term reliabliity ??
Eric -
to respond to your concerns
unlike the other "expert" tuners who are doing ecu upgrades on the EVO - BEFORE I started to sell any products - I worked with Pruven who is a 4g63 expert to push the limits of the stock block and internals safely OVER 500 WHP !!!! With no failure what so ever
AFTER we saw these engines could take that kind of power I decided a 20 - 30 whp upgrade was well within the capacity of the engine
I first toyed with a emanange set up with standard maps - but there was way too much car to car variability to offer such a packakge as a standard item
The reflash has proven to be a totally reliable and repeatable upgrade and we have the a/f's and ign set the way we feel is bnest to make a BIT more power while maintaining stock egts and knock activity lower than stock
Think about this = IF
expert engineers decide after years of evolution on these engines that they want a a/f ratio in the high 9's at full boost as in the stock cars - - - - tHEN how could you in a rational frame of mind insinuate that I am doing something dangerous by erring on the side of caution and leaving the mixture in the mid 10's instead of the high 11's like your buddy Shiv?It should be clear that a richer mixture is providing more charge cooling and margin of saftey at an expense of a bit lower power
Its really bizare that in yourt misguided attempts to market Vishnu products - of which I understand you are a long standing installation "center" you would make such idiotic claims and observations which really show your total lack of understanding
Isnt it true that Vishnu actually attentuates the Knock signal - or reduces it - to get the same result - thereby just allowing the car to maniuantain slight detonation ??? How good is that for long term reliabliity ??
Oct 24, 2003 | 10:01 AM
#67
Originally posted by DynoFlash
Eric -
to respond to your concerns
unlike the other "expert" tuners who are doing ecu upgrades on the EVO - BEFORE I started to sell any products - I worked with Pruven who is a 4g63 expert to push the limits of the stock block and internals safely OVER 500 WHP !!!! With no failure what so ever
AFTER we saw these engines could take that kind of power I decided a 20 - 30 whp upgrade was well within the capacity of the engine
I first toyed with a emanange set up with standard maps - but there was way too much car to car variability to offer such a packakge as a standard item
The reflash has proven to be a totally reliable and repeatable upgrade and we have the a/f's and ign set the way we feel is bnest to make a BIT more power while maintaining stock egts and knock activity lower than stock
Think about this = IF expert engineers decide after years of evolution on these engines that they want a a/f ratio in the high 9's at full boost as in the stock cars - - - - tHEN how could you in a rational frame of mind insinuate that I am doing something dangerous by erring on the side of caution and leaving the mixture in the mid 10's instead of the high 11's like your buddy Shiv?
It should be clear that a richer mixture is providing more charge cooling and margin of saftey at an expense of a bit lower power
Its really bizare that in yourt misguided attempts to market Vishnu products - of which I understand you are a long standing installation "center" you would make such idiotic claims and observations which really show your total lack of understanding
Isnt it true that Vishnu actually attentuates the Knock signal - or reduces it - to get the same result - thereby just allowing the car to maniuantain slight detonation ??? How good is that for long term reliabliity ??
Eric -
to respond to your concerns
unlike the other "expert" tuners who are doing ecu upgrades on the EVO - BEFORE I started to sell any products - I worked with Pruven who is a 4g63 expert to push the limits of the stock block and internals safely OVER 500 WHP !!!! With no failure what so ever
AFTER we saw these engines could take that kind of power I decided a 20 - 30 whp upgrade was well within the capacity of the engine
I first toyed with a emanange set up with standard maps - but there was way too much car to car variability to offer such a packakge as a standard item
The reflash has proven to be a totally reliable and repeatable upgrade and we have the a/f's and ign set the way we feel is bnest to make a BIT more power while maintaining stock egts and knock activity lower than stock
Think about this = IF
expert engineers decide after years of evolution on these engines that they want a a/f ratio in the high 9's at full boost as in the stock cars - - - - tHEN how could you in a rational frame of mind insinuate that I am doing something dangerous by erring on the side of caution and leaving the mixture in the mid 10's instead of the high 11's like your buddy Shiv?It should be clear that a richer mixture is providing more charge cooling and margin of saftey at an expense of a bit lower power
Its really bizare that in yourt misguided attempts to market Vishnu products - of which I understand you are a long standing installation "center" you would make such idiotic claims and observations which really show your total lack of understanding
Isnt it true that Vishnu actually attentuates the Knock signal - or reduces it - to get the same result - thereby just allowing the car to maniuantain slight detonation ??? How good is that for long term reliabliity ??
Also Al, I remember a time were you used to have your friends call Vishnu to order you Shiv’s products because he did not want to deal with you. You liked his products so much you had to get them at any means. I understand I do like them my self. These were not little things TecII for 2,500 plus for WRX. Might I add that you ran faster with the Uni-chip when TXS was tuning it then when you got full control of a standalone that you were tuning.
That’s ok I forgive you for trying to make me look like I’m a loyalist and brain washed.
Now back to the subject. About the Evo engineers, Do you think there A/F is all over the place like yours?? I know you can see the base map throw your flash.
And don’t pull Pruven in to this. I like those guys a lot. They know there stuff.
Oct 24, 2003 | 10:02 AM
#68
Originally posted by ap-evo83
here we go again...
here we go again...
Oct 24, 2003 | 10:06 AM
#70
Originally posted by MP5
No but it is super low class for a selling vendor to flat out lie!! It shows slimy character and for that reason alone Id be wary. Go check for yourself the proof is there AL is lying/cheating /and scamming for his own ends- Ive already corrected the Cobb lie but see untruthful vendors seem to be just fine to most
No but it is super low class for a selling vendor to flat out lie!! It shows slimy character and for that reason alone Id be wary. Go check for yourself the proof is there AL is lying/cheating /and scamming for his own ends- Ive already corrected the Cobb lie but see untruthful vendors seem to be just fine to most
Oct 24, 2003 | 10:18 AM
#71
Originally posted by DynoFlash
[BIsnt it true that Vishnu actually attentuates the Knock signal - or reduces it - to get the same result - thereby just allowing the car to maniuantain slight detonation ??? How good is that for long term reliabliity ?? [/B]
[BIsnt it true that Vishnu actually attentuates the Knock signal - or reduces it - to get the same result - thereby just allowing the car to maniuantain slight detonation ??? How good is that for long term reliabliity ?? [/B]
But I have turned off this feature on my Xede and run full factory knock senser corrections. I would add that with the detanation phones with a ful 20% correction I have not heard any knock after Shiv's custom dyno tune. And yes I have driven into work with them on and pluged into the motor. I don't know why there is a correction, Shiv would be able to give you a better answer then my self. I'm by no means a expert of anything. (Well expect upipes over 200 installed and not leaking).
Eric
Oct 24, 2003 | 10:30 AM
#72
Originally posted by Eric Lyublinsky
I'm not selling anything so don't worry. I stated that I was looking to learn not attack nor in any of my posts I said anything about Vishnu. Yes I'm a weekend installer but I was a weekend installer before making it to Shiv's list. I do not tune EM expect for my own car and I post to learn as much as possible because this is very interesting stuff to me. Now instead of trying to say I'm Shiv's butt buddy why don't you help me learn another way of tuning then I know already.
Also Al, I remember a time were you used to have your friends call Vishnu to order you Shiv’s products because he did not want to deal with you. You liked his products so much you had to get them at any means. I understand I do like them my self. These were not little things TecII for 2,500 plus for WRX. Might I add that you ran faster with the Uni-chip when TXS was tuning it then when you got full control of a standalone that you were tuning.
That’s ok I forgive you for trying to make me look like I’m a loyalist and brain washed.
Now back to the subject. About the Evo engineers, Do you think there A/F is all over the place like yours?? I know you can see the base map throw your flash.
And don’t pull Pruven in to this. I like those guys a lot. They know there stuff.
I'm not selling anything so don't worry. I stated that I was looking to learn not attack nor in any of my posts I said anything about Vishnu. Yes I'm a weekend installer but I was a weekend installer before making it to Shiv's list. I do not tune EM expect for my own car and I post to learn as much as possible because this is very interesting stuff to me. Now instead of trying to say I'm Shiv's butt buddy why don't you help me learn another way of tuning then I know already.
Also Al, I remember a time were you used to have your friends call Vishnu to order you Shiv’s products because he did not want to deal with you. You liked his products so much you had to get them at any means. I understand I do like them my self. These were not little things TecII for 2,500 plus for WRX. Might I add that you ran faster with the Uni-chip when TXS was tuning it then when you got full control of a standalone that you were tuning.
That’s ok I forgive you for trying to make me look like I’m a loyalist and brain washed.
Now back to the subject. About the Evo engineers, Do you think there A/F is all over the place like yours?? I know you can see the base map throw your flash.
And don’t pull Pruven in to this. I like those guys a lot. They know there stuff.
Way back in the day - when I was a client - I pulled an end run around Shiv to get a Tec II kit becuase I did not want to have to fabricate my own crank trigger pick up holder. If you want to take credit for Shiv creating the TEC II I think you need some professional help. I can tell you from perosnal experiance as a former clinet that Vishnu customer service sucks. I did NOT have a easy time getting warranty service on my WRX upipe and in fact they refused to do anything about it so I threw it out. The hole in the top did NOT match the turbo inlet - it was off center. They refused to do anything about that becuase - much like a OEM - they said the fact that I had the LOWER seam to the bottom flange TIG welded to seal a leak have "voided" my warranty.
Last edited by Alfriedesq; Oct 24, 2003 at 10:36 AM.
Oct 24, 2003 | 10:35 AM
#73
Originally posted by Eric Lyublinsky
Yes Al,
But I have turned off this feature on my Xede and run full factory knock senser corrections. I would add that with the detanation phones with a ful 20% correction I have not heard any knock after Shiv's custom dyno tune. And yes I have driven into work with them on and pluged into the motor. I don't know why there is a correction, Shiv would be able to give you a better answer then my self. I'm by no means a expert of anything. (Well expect upipes over 200 installed and not leaking).
Eric
Yes Al,
But I have turned off this feature on my Xede and run full factory knock senser corrections. I would add that with the detanation phones with a ful 20% correction I have not heard any knock after Shiv's custom dyno tune. And yes I have driven into work with them on and pluged into the motor. I don't know why there is a correction, Shiv would be able to give you a better answer then my self. I'm by no means a expert of anything. (Well expect upipes over 200 installed and not leaking).
Eric
However, his method of marketing - sicking his pack of loyalist installers and clients onto these message boards to post insults and personal attacks is really low class.
Also - he is highly onboxious and arrogent himself.
Finally - you will NEVER - EVER - see Dyno Flash reduce or eliminate the stock knock correction function. While such methods may be nice for short term fun they are not something we recomend or even think about.
Oct 24, 2003 | 10:47 AM
#74
Originally posted by Alfriedesq
Its interesting how you assert that I am "screwing" up my clinet's cars in the other thread with my "dangerous" tuning methods and now suddenly you are a mere consumer out to learn about tuning.I just wanted folks to know the truth - you have a finacial intesrest in Vishnu products as someone who installs them and also as someone who sets up Shiv's maraton dyno days here in the tri-state area. Don't pretend to be a disinterested customer - you are not.
Way back in the day - when I was a client - I pulled an end run around Shiv to get a Tec II kit becuase I did not want to have to fabricate my own crank trigger pick up holder. If you want to take credit for Shiv creating the TEC II I think you need some professional help. I can tell you from perosnal experiance as a former clinet that Vishnu customer service sucks. I did NOT have a easy time getting warranty service on my WRX upipe and in fact they refused to do anything about it so I threw it out. The hole in the top did NOT match the turbo inlet - it was off center. They refused to do anything about that becuase - much like a OEM - they said the fact that I had the LOWER seam to the bottom flange TIG welded to seal a leak have "voided" my warranty.
Its interesting how you assert that I am "screwing" up my clinet's cars in the other thread with my "dangerous" tuning methods and now suddenly you are a mere consumer out to learn about tuning.I just wanted folks to know the truth - you have a finacial intesrest in Vishnu products as someone who installs them and also as someone who sets up Shiv's maraton dyno days here in the tri-state area. Don't pretend to be a disinterested customer - you are not.
Way back in the day - when I was a client - I pulled an end run around Shiv to get a Tec II kit becuase I did not want to have to fabricate my own crank trigger pick up holder. If you want to take credit for Shiv creating the TEC II I think you need some professional help. I can tell you from perosnal experiance as a former clinet that Vishnu customer service sucks. I did NOT have a easy time getting warranty service on my WRX upipe and in fact they refused to do anything about it so I threw it out. The hole in the top did NOT match the turbo inlet - it was off center. They refused to do anything about that becuase - much like a OEM - they said the fact that I had the LOWER seam to the bottom flange TIG welded to seal a leak have "voided" my warranty.
I make nothing on dyno days.. NOTHING, I get a free tune and free dyno time. (300 bucks, do you really think that is worth my time and effort for my full weekend and the time it takes to set one up) I would also like to add that the dyno day in May that I set up, I did not even get my own car on it. I have none of my money on the table. I set up the dyno days for people that I know in the area that I have installed for or talked on the board.
I do not speak for Vishnu nor represent them in any way shape or from. I do install there products and I also install allot of other products, from companies such as TXS, Perrin and STI.
Eric
Oct 24, 2003 | 10:49 AM
#75
Originally posted by Alfriedesq
I never said Shiv can't tune a car he is certanly one of the best out there.
However, his method of marketing - sicking his pack of loyalist installers and clients onto these message boards to post insults and personal attacks is really low class.
Also - he is highly onboxious and arrogent himself.
Finally - you will NEVER - EVER - see Dyno Flash reduce or eliminate the stock knock correction function. While such methods may be nice for short term fun they are not something we recomend or even think about.
I never said Shiv can't tune a car he is certanly one of the best out there.
However, his method of marketing - sicking his pack of loyalist installers and clients onto these message boards to post insults and personal attacks is really low class.
Also - he is highly onboxious and arrogent himself.
Finally - you will NEVER - EVER - see Dyno Flash reduce or eliminate the stock knock correction function. While such methods may be nice for short term fun they are not something we recomend or even think about.
Did you really just post that? Pot... kettle...Black- Again for the record Shiv HAS NEVER!! condoned. encouraged or alluded to me or any of the other vocal INFORMED Vishnu followers even remotely to get his back- NEVER!! If anything I bet he wishes wed shut up and let this scroll off the front page- but guess what he has NEVER asked we keep our mouth shut either!
The only reason why we respond is YOU ARE FLAT OUT LYING TO THE BOARD!!! You of course are doing this on purpose because you know a good majority of uninformed or lazy people will take it as truth cause they wernt there and wont look it up! Everyone laughed at you when you cried for warranty from vishnu when you botched the install and WELDED
the flange to the headeryet you miss no chance to brew up another Romantic Al saga
Last edited by MP5; Oct 24, 2003 at 11:01 AM.