David Buschur's RS/BADBISH 2010 build
Feb 18, 2010, 11:27 AM
#76
I don't want to get too excited but the car is running GREAT, has made it's first dyno runs of the year and I am one happy guy so far.
First, thanks to Cris (crispeed) at AWD Motorsports for helping me get the idle figured out finally on the Haltech. It was driving me nuts, he helped me late last night, thank you for the help Cris, works perfect now.
I've spent the last few days in the evenings when everyone is gone, working on the idle and getting the maps set up just how I want them (like scalings, and x/y axis stuff). The car now starts and idles excellent. It still revs faster than anything I've seen.
My brother Dan asked me today, "You going to ever dyno the RS or just look at it all year?" I asked, "What's your hurry? I like having it not broken!" He said, "Get it on the dyno so if we need to do something else we can."
So today was the day. The car was loaded on the dyno, same tune as last year. Quite a few changes have been made but all "minor". We have our new style piston in the car, still a 2.1 liter but we re-designed the piston. Head is identical to the last one. Same BF272 cams, same HTA86, same BR FF turbo kit. We put a fresh rear differential in it and it's a LOT quieter than the old one. As you have seen I've upgraded all the vacuum/boost lines to the Pro Lite hose. The car has a single 3/8" SS feed line on it. Other than that and some cosmetic changes the rest has remained the same. There was a LOT of attention paid to detail this time and nothing was done in a hurry or rushed. I didn't use old parts I had laying around and I didn't short cut anything "just so I can get to the track".
Well it seems to have paid off. The difference in the low/mid range power on the car is just about night and day.
At 30 psi of boost the car layed down a best of 626 whp and 500 ft lbs, this was in 3rd gear.
We then switched it over to high boost and ran a pull at 40 psi. The power climbed to 693 whp and 574 ft lbs.
Now to put these numbers into perspective as many of you know I've done a lot of intake manifold testing. Looking back through all my logs, regardless of boost levels or which intake I was running the absolute highest torque I can find in my notes and sheets is 554 ft lbs. That 554 number was on the V2 intake, with Import for fuel, before the re-calibration of the dyno too, I also want to point out that was listed in my notes as a "FREAK" pass as the car only made that type of WHP/FT LBS one time. Typically the best was 543 ft lbs previously in the cars best condition.
Comaring the dyno graphs from my best numbers before to now has the car up 30 ft lbs of torque at 3,000 rpm, 34 ft lbs at 3500 rpm, 60 ft lbs from about 4300 to 5,000 rpm and then from there until 8,000 rpm it's up a steady 20 ft lbs.
Right now we are working on swapping the header on the car for a test. I'll have those results shortly and will post up some dyno graphs after getting that testing done.
Jarrod is also working on a video.
First, thanks to Cris (crispeed) at AWD Motorsports for helping me get the idle figured out finally on the Haltech. It was driving me nuts, he helped me late last night, thank you for the help Cris, works perfect now.
I've spent the last few days in the evenings when everyone is gone, working on the idle and getting the maps set up just how I want them (like scalings, and x/y axis stuff). The car now starts and idles excellent. It still revs faster than anything I've seen.
My brother Dan asked me today, "You going to ever dyno the RS or just look at it all year?" I asked, "What's your hurry? I like having it not broken!" He said, "Get it on the dyno so if we need to do something else we can."
So today was the day. The car was loaded on the dyno, same tune as last year. Quite a few changes have been made but all "minor". We have our new style piston in the car, still a 2.1 liter but we re-designed the piston. Head is identical to the last one. Same BF272 cams, same HTA86, same BR FF turbo kit. We put a fresh rear differential in it and it's a LOT quieter than the old one. As you have seen I've upgraded all the vacuum/boost lines to the Pro Lite hose. The car has a single 3/8" SS feed line on it. Other than that and some cosmetic changes the rest has remained the same. There was a LOT of attention paid to detail this time and nothing was done in a hurry or rushed. I didn't use old parts I had laying around and I didn't short cut anything "just so I can get to the track".
Well it seems to have paid off. The difference in the low/mid range power on the car is just about night and day.
At 30 psi of boost the car layed down a best of 626 whp and 500 ft lbs, this was in 3rd gear.
We then switched it over to high boost and ran a pull at 40 psi. The power climbed to 693 whp and 574 ft lbs.
Now to put these numbers into perspective as many of you know I've done a lot of intake manifold testing. Looking back through all my logs, regardless of boost levels or which intake I was running the absolute highest torque I can find in my notes and sheets is 554 ft lbs. That 554 number was on the V2 intake, with Import for fuel, before the re-calibration of the dyno too, I also want to point out that was listed in my notes as a "FREAK" pass as the car only made that type of WHP/FT LBS one time. Typically the best was 543 ft lbs previously in the cars best condition.
Comaring the dyno graphs from my best numbers before to now has the car up 30 ft lbs of torque at 3,000 rpm, 34 ft lbs at 3500 rpm, 60 ft lbs from about 4300 to 5,000 rpm and then from there until 8,000 rpm it's up a steady 20 ft lbs.
Right now we are working on swapping the header on the car for a test. I'll have those results shortly and will post up some dyno graphs after getting that testing done.
Jarrod is also working on a video.
Feb 18, 2010, 11:32 AM
#77
I don't want to get too excited but the car is running GREAT, has made it's first dyno runs of the year and I am one happy guy so far.
First, thanks to Cris (crispeed) at AWD Motorsports for helping me get the idle figured out finally on the Haltech. It was driving me nuts, he helped me late last night, thank you for the help Cris, works perfect now.
I've spent the last few days in the evenings when everyone is gone, working on the idle and getting the maps set up just how I want them (like scalings, and x/y axis stuff). The car now starts and idles excellent. It still revs faster than anything I've seen.
My brother Dan asked me today, "You going to ever dyno the RS or just look at it all year?" I asked, "What's your hurry? I like having it not broken!" He said, "Get it on the dyno so if we need to do something else we can."
So today was the day. The car was loaded on the dyno, same tune as last year. Quite a few changes have been made but all "minor". We have our new style piston in the car, still a 2.1 liter but we re-designed the piston. Head is identical to the last one. Same BF272 cams, same HTA86, same BR FF turbo kit. We put a fresh rear differential in it and it's a LOT quieter than the old one. As you have seen I've upgraded all the vacuum/boost lines to the Pro Lite hose. The car has a single 3/8" SS feed line on it. Other than that and some cosmetic changes the rest has remained the same. There was a LOT of attention paid to detail this time and nothing was done in a hurry or rushed. I didn't use old parts I had laying around and I didn't short cut anything "just so I can get to the track".
Well it seems to have paid off. The difference in the low/mid range power on the car is just about night and day.
At 30 psi of boost the car layed down a best of 626 whp and 500 ft lbs, this was in 3rd gear.
We then switched it over to high boost and ran a pull at 40 psi. The power climbed to 693 whp and 574 ft lbs.
Now to put these numbers into perspective as many of you know I've done a lot of intake manifold testing. Looking back through all my logs, regardless of boost levels or which intake I was running the absolute highest torque I can find in my notes and sheets is 554 ft lbs. That 554 number was on the V2 intake, with Import for fuel, before the re-calibration of the dyno too, I also want to point out that was listed in my notes as a "FREAK" pass as the car only made that type of WHP/FT LBS one time. Typically the best was 543 ft lbs previously in the cars best condition.
Comaring the dyno graphs from my best numbers before to now has the car up 30 ft lbs of torque at 3,000 rpm, 34 ft lbs at 3500 rpm, 60 ft lbs from about 4300 to 5,000 rpm and then from there until 8,000 rpm it's up a steady 20 ft lbs.
Right now we are working on swapping the header on the car for a test. I'll have those results shortly and will post up some dyno graphs after getting that testing done.
Jarrod is also working on a video.
First, thanks to Cris (crispeed) at AWD Motorsports for helping me get the idle figured out finally on the Haltech. It was driving me nuts, he helped me late last night, thank you for the help Cris, works perfect now.
I've spent the last few days in the evenings when everyone is gone, working on the idle and getting the maps set up just how I want them (like scalings, and x/y axis stuff). The car now starts and idles excellent. It still revs faster than anything I've seen.
My brother Dan asked me today, "You going to ever dyno the RS or just look at it all year?" I asked, "What's your hurry? I like having it not broken!" He said, "Get it on the dyno so if we need to do something else we can."
So today was the day. The car was loaded on the dyno, same tune as last year. Quite a few changes have been made but all "minor". We have our new style piston in the car, still a 2.1 liter but we re-designed the piston. Head is identical to the last one. Same BF272 cams, same HTA86, same BR FF turbo kit. We put a fresh rear differential in it and it's a LOT quieter than the old one. As you have seen I've upgraded all the vacuum/boost lines to the Pro Lite hose. The car has a single 3/8" SS feed line on it. Other than that and some cosmetic changes the rest has remained the same. There was a LOT of attention paid to detail this time and nothing was done in a hurry or rushed. I didn't use old parts I had laying around and I didn't short cut anything "just so I can get to the track".
Well it seems to have paid off. The difference in the low/mid range power on the car is just about night and day.
At 30 psi of boost the car layed down a best of 626 whp and 500 ft lbs, this was in 3rd gear.
We then switched it over to high boost and ran a pull at 40 psi. The power climbed to 693 whp and 574 ft lbs.
Now to put these numbers into perspective as many of you know I've done a lot of intake manifold testing. Looking back through all my logs, regardless of boost levels or which intake I was running the absolute highest torque I can find in my notes and sheets is 554 ft lbs. That 554 number was on the V2 intake, with Import for fuel, before the re-calibration of the dyno too, I also want to point out that was listed in my notes as a "FREAK" pass as the car only made that type of WHP/FT LBS one time. Typically the best was 543 ft lbs previously in the cars best condition.
Comaring the dyno graphs from my best numbers before to now has the car up 30 ft lbs of torque at 3,000 rpm, 34 ft lbs at 3500 rpm, 60 ft lbs from about 4300 to 5,000 rpm and then from there until 8,000 rpm it's up a steady 20 ft lbs.
Right now we are working on swapping the header on the car for a test. I'll have those results shortly and will post up some dyno graphs after getting that testing done.
Jarrod is also working on a video.
Feb 18, 2010, 12:37 PM
#86
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Nice work, glad to see the BadBish back on the dyno and ready for some more testing! LOL We need to talk about putting a new engine together for my 05. I'll get a hold of you when I get back from Afghanistan.
Josh
Josh
Feb 18, 2010, 12:52 PM
#87
Testing completed on the first part.
I had Ron build me a new header. Very interesting findings and this should help some of you with the twin scroll fairy floating around in your heads make some decisions. Our thought was to use the smaller runner tubing on a Forward Facing header (much like other twin scroll companies use) and try it on a big horsepower car.
The thought was some of the spool up gains posted for twin scroll kits were because of the smaller tubing used and that on a high horsepower car that same smaller tubing would begin to choke the flow. Without testing we have no answers and now we have some.
These tests were, like all of mine, done back to back, 3 hours apart. The car wasn't taken off the dyno, all that was changed was the header itself.
The baseline run is with the large tubing header like we sell/use. Peak boost was 32.8 on the log and 20.2 psi was reached at 4885 rpm.
The second run is with the smaller tubing. Peak boost hit 34.4 psi and 20.1 psi was reached at 4683 rpm.
So the smaller runner tubing caused an increase in peak boost and got the turbo to 20 psi by about 200 rpm sooner. Looking at the dyno graph you will notice that up top at 620 whp on our dyno the gains are very minimal or 0. Down low though there are gains of as much as 60 ft lbs of torque around 4400 rpm, that's a nice gain. Gains are noticable from 3500 rpm all the way to 5500 rpm. Here is that first graph:
Next the boost was flipped over to high. This next graph shows the baseline run with a peak boost of 41.3 psi and reaching 20.3 psi at 4916 rpm with the large tube header. With the small tube header in place peak boost increased to 43.8 psi and it reached 20.4 psi at 4735 rpm. Something else to note was at 8,000 rpm the large tube header had 39.2 psi of boost while the small runner had 41.2 psi. Based on the high boost runs and the dyno graph the small runner seems to be backing the flow up because that 2 psi jump in boost should have resulted in more power, instead it resulted in less and the car was not nearly as smooth. The gains in the low/mid range were notable again with about the same increases as on low boost.
Here is the dyno graph for comparison:
I don't want this thread ruined so before the hate starts I have stated before in the past my feelings on twin scroll set ups. My thought has been that the smaller runner tubing hurts the power at high horsepower levels. Ron and I both thought that this test would result in some very good gains in the low/mid range power, which the gains are substantial enough to justify the header on a car that isn't looking to run 8's like mine. Such as our EVOX, I built that header from the smaller tubing and it is working kick *** with 20 psi hitting at about 4600 rpm. I think this is just another step in testing-testing-testing to find the ultimate set ups for many combinations.
More testing coming. Header is being swapped back with the new turbo now. Tomorrow maybe we'll do our new cam testing and then chose what is the best combination of parts and hope to relax for the rest of the year and enjoy this car!!!
I had Ron build me a new header. Very interesting findings and this should help some of you with the twin scroll fairy floating around in your heads make some decisions. Our thought was to use the smaller runner tubing on a Forward Facing header (much like other twin scroll companies use) and try it on a big horsepower car.
The thought was some of the spool up gains posted for twin scroll kits were because of the smaller tubing used and that on a high horsepower car that same smaller tubing would begin to choke the flow. Without testing we have no answers and now we have some.
These tests were, like all of mine, done back to back, 3 hours apart. The car wasn't taken off the dyno, all that was changed was the header itself.
The baseline run is with the large tubing header like we sell/use. Peak boost was 32.8 on the log and 20.2 psi was reached at 4885 rpm.
The second run is with the smaller tubing. Peak boost hit 34.4 psi and 20.1 psi was reached at 4683 rpm.
So the smaller runner tubing caused an increase in peak boost and got the turbo to 20 psi by about 200 rpm sooner. Looking at the dyno graph you will notice that up top at 620 whp on our dyno the gains are very minimal or 0. Down low though there are gains of as much as 60 ft lbs of torque around 4400 rpm, that's a nice gain. Gains are noticable from 3500 rpm all the way to 5500 rpm. Here is that first graph:
Next the boost was flipped over to high. This next graph shows the baseline run with a peak boost of 41.3 psi and reaching 20.3 psi at 4916 rpm with the large tube header. With the small tube header in place peak boost increased to 43.8 psi and it reached 20.4 psi at 4735 rpm. Something else to note was at 8,000 rpm the large tube header had 39.2 psi of boost while the small runner had 41.2 psi. Based on the high boost runs and the dyno graph the small runner seems to be backing the flow up because that 2 psi jump in boost should have resulted in more power, instead it resulted in less and the car was not nearly as smooth. The gains in the low/mid range were notable again with about the same increases as on low boost.
Here is the dyno graph for comparison:
I don't want this thread ruined so before the hate starts I have stated before in the past my feelings on twin scroll set ups. My thought has been that the smaller runner tubing hurts the power at high horsepower levels. Ron and I both thought that this test would result in some very good gains in the low/mid range power, which the gains are substantial enough to justify the header on a car that isn't looking to run 8's like mine. Such as our EVOX, I built that header from the smaller tubing and it is working kick *** with 20 psi hitting at about 4600 rpm. I think this is just another step in testing-testing-testing to find the ultimate set ups for many combinations.
More testing coming. Header is being swapped back with the new turbo now. Tomorrow maybe we'll do our new cam testing and then chose what is the best combination of parts and hope to relax for the rest of the year and enjoy this car!!!
Last edited by David Buschur; Feb 18, 2010 at 12:56 PM.
Feb 18, 2010, 12:57 PM
#88
BTW, based on this testing the smaller runner tubing looks like it will work best up to about 600 whp on our dyno or 690 whp on a Dynojet.
To all the vendors who copy and don't test themselves.........you're welcome for my testing once again.
To all the vendors who copy and don't test themselves.........you're welcome for my testing once again.
