i was originally going to go 35r and ordered one. it looked better than evodan's but still not nearly as good as a newer gt housing.

 

twin scroll spools way faster. My full race twin scroll t4 1.06ar HTA gt3582r hits 20psi by 4k rpm i n 3rd gear and had 200awhp by 4k rpm. All on the stock 2.0 engine. This set up spools faster and makes more top end than my old open scroll gt30r .63ar setup.

you wont find a t3 open scroll that hits 20psi and 200awho by4k rpm on the stock engine

 

Great topic!

 

Everyone posting up this is better than that isn't going anywhere. "My turbo spooled 20psi by 4k but I started the pull at 1300 rpms." Too many variables to say anything.

The only definitive way to solve this is seeing how JB does with his testing. He isn't biased and will give actual results. The only test should be a t4 TS 1.06 A/R vs the same turbo with a SS .64 A/R on the same car. I also hope he goes through with the wide range of testing, the controlled enviroment and 4 gear pull on the dyno plus the part throttle to full throttle testing.

To test or show results from a T4 1.06 A/R and a T3 SS .82 is stupid. Might as well test a 42r vs a hta86. Mike also stated that he has tested a .63 A/R hta86 and it didn't run out of steem, or choke up, all the way to 700hp if I recall correctly.

Let's all hope that JB goes through with this test and ETS is nice enough to send him a couple kits to test.

 

only 2 parts need to be changed, the manifold and the turbine housing.

 

If done as I suggested above with a slip-fit collector, then you aren't changing the manifold, just the collector and turbine housing. This guarantees there is no impact from a change in runner lengths, bends, etc.

You'll also need to change the wastegate setup.

I think trying to use a Full Race TS manifold and test against a Full-Race single scroll manifold is probably a waste as there are likely enough differences in runner layout and collector arrangement that it would impact the results, or at least draw question. I think a purpose built manifold needs to be built to truly evaluate TS vs. SS.

 

That is ideal but I don't think it will happen with the slip-fit collector. I will be satisfied if he just did a mani and turbine housing swap. I think many others will be satisfied with that also. If he could get the same size runners also that would be bad a$$. Then all he needs to do is move to a mile high and test it again so I will know that the test duplicate where I live lol jk

Also, I think a hta86 or 6262 should be used in this test. These are the most popular turbos right now and the t04z is old school. Although any test with the same turbo will be great. Everyone needs to compare the plots and not look at the overall number.

 

that isnt very practical. as stated, 99% of us would be happy with a full race single vs. full race twin or a ets single vs. ets twin and a turbine swap. as long as the manifold has the same runner size/layout and manufacturer.

 

I would definitely say ETS because full race is a strong advocate of the TS. I am not sure how well their SS do or how many of them they sell. I am sure they wouldn't make it suck just to sell more of the TS though. JB has a good relationship with ETS so it would be easier to get a couple to test.

 

only 1 part needs changed and that is the turbone housing. A divided manifold wont hurt and open scroll turbo and all t4 turbines are interchangable so take a twinscroll kit and swap in a singlescroll housing. Same manifold/wg/dp and all just the turbine swap. It is also very easy to do.

 

I don't see how it's not practical.

You build a test manifold out of mild steel. It's cheaper then picking up a stainless manifold and easier to work with over trying to adapt one style of manifold over to the other. Do it on a car with a half width radiator so there is plenty of room. Use an oil cooled only turbo to reduce plumbing. Build a bracket to support the turbo.

Also, using an undivided housing on a divided manifold does not use the full benefit of a shallow angle merge collector and would be skewing the test in favor of the divided manifold. If it's enough to show up in testing is the question and making the assumption it wouldn't is a flaw in the test.

I realize that the turbo height wouldn't work as drawn, but it gives the basic idea. The turbo would be forward facing just because it makes the runner lay out more simple and easier to accommodate the change from single scroll to twin scroll.

You could even add on the second wastegate on the undivided setup to make the only change the collector and the turbine housing.

Divided Setup


Undivided Setup

 

The ideal setup is what 03GSR is talking about, but that is not a consumer offering.

What the public wants is a test of what is available to them. They have options to choose from when buying a set-up, match two together and test those.

This is what I would be looking at if I was buying a new setup based on the HTA3586.

Turbo: HTA3586

Manifold option 1: ETS T3 equal length
Turbine Housing option 1: T3 5 bolt precision .63 A/R. Best spooling.

Manifold option 2: ETS T4 Twinscroll with dual wastegates
Turbine Housing option 2: T4 1.06 A/R

If you have time it would be cool to see the .82 A/R T3, which is probably what is on the car right now. But the direct comparison is T3 .63 A/R vs T4 1.06 A/R, and 03whitegsr has the SAE papers that state that.

 

This is a very interesting topic to me and i agree there has not be a "concrete" test done yet. FWIW i make a manifold that offers the exact same runner layout and construction in both twin scroll and open form. I can do it in either 1.25 or 1.5" and would be willing to offer one for testing if someone wishes to do this. It is a forward facing manifold that requires a half radiator.


Heres a comparison i had from about a year ago. Setup is a 2.2L Honda with a GT4094r. Dotted line is tubular long runner open manifold with .85ar housing. Soild line is tubular long runner divided manifold and 1.06ar housing. Boost level is roughly 14.5 psi for both.

 

a T4 TS FF manifold would be sick. it seems the FF manifolds are a hot idem. but in TS IMO it would be even hotter. ''for us TS guys''

 

The difference between 1.25" and 1.5" is minimal on a 500whp setup. Back to back testing was done on a 30R setup w/ overall peak power difference was less then 10whp and spool was w/in a 1-200 rpm. In the evo engine bay the 1.25" makes for much better clearance and install/removal but thats about it. Its a toss up in the end IMO.