Mikey's LR2.4 MIVEC 10:1 Motor Build
#17
Subscribing. I have talked with JohnBradley about the 2.4 you guys are going with, seeing as I am still in need of a new engine. But the price I was quoted almost made me choke. I'll have to see if the outcome from your build will be worth the extra cash to make me choice ER some of the other much cheaper choices.
-Acree
-Acree
#18
Thank you Mike. I am hoping everything will work really nice together and make the power we are hoping. Thanks for your help
Mikey
#19
Subscribing. I have talked with JohnBradley about the 2.4 you guys are going with, seeing as I am still in need of a new engine. But the price I was quoted almost made me choke. I'll have to see if the outcome from your build will be worth the extra cash to make me choice ER some of the other much cheaper choices.
-Acree
-Acree
Do your car a favor and let the ER crew bring it back to life!!
To Mikey...cant wait to see the results with pump and e85!
#20
its one of the "you get what you pay for" If you want the best, built by the best by a shop that produces nothing but great results....you will go to ER...if you want to save some money up front but pay more on the back side....then there are 100 shops for you!
Do your car a favor and let the ER crew bring it back to life!!
To Mikey...cant wait to see the results with pump and e85!
Do your car a favor and let the ER crew bring it back to life!!
To Mikey...cant wait to see the results with pump and e85!
-Acree
#23
Well to put things in perspective, the owner I purchased the vehicle from said all of the work had been done by English Racing. It was pushing 27 lbs on the stock block/head with 93/meth. The engine sent a rod out of the side of the block about 3 weeks after I received the car. I pulled the rom off the car and the rev limiter was set to 8081 rpm. I'm a little confused as to why the rev limiter was set so high since the engine was on stock springs/retainers/rods/pistons/crank/etc... So I don't know. I'll know more once I get the engine pulled this next weekend.
-Acree
-Acree
#24
its one of the "you get what you pay for" If you want the best, built by the best by a shop that produces nothing but great results....you will go to ER...if you want to save some money up front but pay more on the back side....then there are 100 shops for you!
Do your car a favor and let the ER crew bring it back to life!!
To Mikey...cant wait to see the results with pump and e85!
Do your car a favor and let the ER crew bring it back to life!!
To Mikey...cant wait to see the results with pump and e85!
Well to put things in perspective, the owner I purchased the vehicle from said all of the work had been done by English Racing. It was pushing 27 lbs on the stock block/head with 93/meth. The engine sent a rod out of the side of the block about 3 weeks after I received the car. I pulled the rom off the car and the rev limiter was set to 8081 rpm. I'm a little confused as to why the rev limiter was set so high since the engine was on stock springs/retainers/rods/pistons/crank/etc... So I don't know. I'll know more once I get the engine pulled this next weekend.
-Acree
-Acree
Mikey
#25
Well to put things in perspective, the owner I purchased the vehicle from said all of the work had been done by English Racing. It was pushing 27 lbs on the stock block/head with 93/meth. The engine sent a rod out of the side of the block about 3 weeks after I received the car. I pulled the rom off the car and the rev limiter was set to 8081 rpm. I'm a little confused as to why the rev limiter was set so high since the engine was on stock springs/retainers/rods/pistons/crank/etc... So I don't know. I'll know more once I get the engine pulled this next weekend.
-Acree
-Acree
This should be left to PM's, there is not enough info in your post to just throw this out there. You dont sound like you are trying to start anything, but also it really could have been left unsaid or in your own thread...jus sayn'...
#26
Mikey,
Looking forward to seeing some pics of your engine bay. I am very curious about your FP Black... custom as well? Can you provide some details on your FP Black versus others?
FP Black w/ modified housing & compressor cover (ported)
FP 25psi Shortened Wastegate Actuator
Thanks again,
Jay
Looking forward to seeing some pics of your engine bay. I am very curious about your FP Black... custom as well? Can you provide some details on your FP Black versus others?
FP Black w/ modified housing & compressor cover (ported)
FP 25psi Shortened Wastegate Actuator
Thanks again,
Jay
#28
For some of you that have not been following the other posts about the benefits going from to a std 150mm rod to a 156mm LR, I'll copy some of the post I have made in other random threads and bring them all here for everyone to view and debate to their liking. Some of the below may say the same thing twice but I don't feel like rewriting everything... copy and paste is amazing!
Benefits to the LR2.4 over a std 2.3 or 2.4.
The lower peak piston speeds are more so the reason we can rev higher, the reduced side load is just an added "comfort and Longevity benefit" if you will. The longer rod does reduce side load so that you are not tearing up the cylinder wall as bad as a 4G63 block with a 150mm rod (156mm rod moves the wrist pin further up in the piston resulting in a 1.13CH). The nice benefit of the longer rod is that the peak piston speeds at any given rpm are lower than a 150mm rod motor. So based on piston speeds alone increasing the rod from a 150mm to a 156mm allows for 200-300 more rpms. The other thing to look at is your rotational mass. The long rod has more rotational mass, not by much, but we kinda burn at both ends... Together, both the lower piston speeds and the reduced side load are what make the LR2.4 more reliable and safer to rev.
With a long rod the piston travels from BDC to 90-o BTDC faster than a short rod and travels slower from 90-o BTDC to TDC. A longer rod tends to have better combustion in the high rpms than a shorter rod too
You need to remember that the "mean or average" piston speed is not just the speed of the piston at the TDC/BDC of the bore, but the piston's full motion of travel from TDC to BDC and back to TDC... Mean piston speed will remain the same between the different rod lengths as long as the stroke remains the same. Peak piston speed on the other hand is the fastest that the piston travels (fpm) within a given stroke, and the longer rod will lower the peak piston speeds.
For example: Center line @ 90o 7500 rpm
Stroke / Rod Length / Rod Angle / Peak piston speed
88mm / 144mm / 17.07 / 2728
88mm / 156mm / 15.76 / 2100
Notice the difference in peak piston speed by just changing the rod length. The longer rod the lower peak piston speed at the same given rpm vs. a shorter rod with all values being equal. At the same time while reducing the peak piston speed which is equal to the level of mechanical stress exerted on the piston and wrist pin, the rod angle centerline angle is reduced as well, resulting in less side loading on the cylinder walls. The longer rod will have less centerline angle for the same crank angle than the shorter rod and therefore has lower side loadings.
Eric (R/TErnie's) math on safe revs given the SAME maximum load applied for the same weight piston for these three combinations... this was the RPM at equivalent loads (These numbers take into account R/S ratio, piston weight, PE rod weight, etc)
Stroke - Load 1 - Load 2 - Load 3
100mm - 7892 RPM - 8285 RPM -8746 RPM
94mm - 8219 RPM - 8629 RPM - 9108 RPM
88mm - 8573 RPM - 9000 RPM - 9500 RPM
The 8200 limit is the point that reliability is still really high based on mean piston speeds, the long rod max piston speeds, and the load. Sure you can rev higher but remember that stress, over time, will destroy a well built motor, regardless of who builds it. So the goal is to find a well rounded rev limit that is fun and safe at the same time. It looks as if 8200 is about right. 8700 on the other hand is in the load 3 cat with the highest stress levels that I for one, don't ever want to personally rev my LR2.4 past. I'll have my daily limit at 8200 and my track limit max of 8650.
As Aaron would tell someone that wanted to rev to 9k... "Sure, and I can stick my dick in a pencil sharpener too, but who the **** would want to." Great line at 0800 in the morning when I first get out of working a 24 hour shift. Thanks for making my day Aaron!
That was prob a huge jumble **** but whatever....
Mikey
Benefits to the LR2.4 over a std 2.3 or 2.4.
The lower peak piston speeds are more so the reason we can rev higher, the reduced side load is just an added "comfort and Longevity benefit" if you will. The longer rod does reduce side load so that you are not tearing up the cylinder wall as bad as a 4G63 block with a 150mm rod (156mm rod moves the wrist pin further up in the piston resulting in a 1.13CH). The nice benefit of the longer rod is that the peak piston speeds at any given rpm are lower than a 150mm rod motor. So based on piston speeds alone increasing the rod from a 150mm to a 156mm allows for 200-300 more rpms. The other thing to look at is your rotational mass. The long rod has more rotational mass, not by much, but we kinda burn at both ends... Together, both the lower piston speeds and the reduced side load are what make the LR2.4 more reliable and safer to rev.
With a long rod the piston travels from BDC to 90-o BTDC faster than a short rod and travels slower from 90-o BTDC to TDC. A longer rod tends to have better combustion in the high rpms than a shorter rod too
You need to remember that the "mean or average" piston speed is not just the speed of the piston at the TDC/BDC of the bore, but the piston's full motion of travel from TDC to BDC and back to TDC... Mean piston speed will remain the same between the different rod lengths as long as the stroke remains the same. Peak piston speed on the other hand is the fastest that the piston travels (fpm) within a given stroke, and the longer rod will lower the peak piston speeds.
For example: Center line @ 90o 7500 rpm
Stroke / Rod Length / Rod Angle / Peak piston speed
88mm / 144mm / 17.07 / 2728
88mm / 156mm / 15.76 / 2100
Notice the difference in peak piston speed by just changing the rod length. The longer rod the lower peak piston speed at the same given rpm vs. a shorter rod with all values being equal. At the same time while reducing the peak piston speed which is equal to the level of mechanical stress exerted on the piston and wrist pin, the rod angle centerline angle is reduced as well, resulting in less side loading on the cylinder walls. The longer rod will have less centerline angle for the same crank angle than the shorter rod and therefore has lower side loadings.
Eric (R/TErnie's) math on safe revs given the SAME maximum load applied for the same weight piston for these three combinations... this was the RPM at equivalent loads (These numbers take into account R/S ratio, piston weight, PE rod weight, etc)
Stroke - Load 1 - Load 2 - Load 3
100mm - 7892 RPM - 8285 RPM -8746 RPM
94mm - 8219 RPM - 8629 RPM - 9108 RPM
88mm - 8573 RPM - 9000 RPM - 9500 RPM
The 8200 limit is the point that reliability is still really high based on mean piston speeds, the long rod max piston speeds, and the load. Sure you can rev higher but remember that stress, over time, will destroy a well built motor, regardless of who builds it. So the goal is to find a well rounded rev limit that is fun and safe at the same time. It looks as if 8200 is about right. 8700 on the other hand is in the load 3 cat with the highest stress levels that I for one, don't ever want to personally rev my LR2.4 past. I'll have my daily limit at 8200 and my track limit max of 8650.
As Aaron would tell someone that wanted to rev to 9k... "Sure, and I can stick my dick in a pencil sharpener too, but who the **** would want to." Great line at 0800 in the morning when I first get out of working a 24 hour shift. Thanks for making my day Aaron!
That was prob a huge jumble **** but whatever....
Mikey
Last edited by BLKCarbonEVO; Jan 28, 2011 at 10:59 AM.
#29
Mikey,
Looking forward to seeing some pics of your engine bay. I am very curious about your FP Black... custom as well? Can you provide some details on your FP Black versus others?
FP Black w/ modified housing & compressor cover (ported)
FP 25psi Shortened Wastegate Actuator
Thanks again,
Jay
Looking forward to seeing some pics of your engine bay. I am very curious about your FP Black... custom as well? Can you provide some details on your FP Black versus others?
FP Black w/ modified housing & compressor cover (ported)
FP 25psi Shortened Wastegate Actuator
Thanks again,
Jay
Mikey
#30
I leave on Tuesday!! Weather still sucks up at Glacier National Park in montana but it will still be nice to go up there nonetheless. We planned out a 7 day trip from here to NC then after a few days there I'll head up to NH.
Ramses +1....
Ramses +1....