Mikey's LR2.4 MIVEC 10:1 Motor Build
#106
Evolved Member
iTrader: (10)
ted b,
cheapie manifolds crack like the megan. what is wrong with the stock cast manifold? sure the best gains won't be achieved, but you would need the high quality tubulars which are more expensive? with the fp black, won't it work fine with the stock manifold? i've seen multiple builds without using a tubular for this setup. just wondering.
strmtrp,
10k is a hot price for the performance. where i am people buy 80k cars like soda even though they are just luxury vehicles that put 400 wheel or so like an m3 conv from dealer new. so this evo will pop a squat on that m3 for a low price. so yea not a bad way to spend 10k. regarding the wife statement, it doesn't make sense. this is not like changing motor oil, this requires far more experience than "i worked on cars with my dad on sundays" sooo... yea...... nice build
cheapie manifolds crack like the megan. what is wrong with the stock cast manifold? sure the best gains won't be achieved, but you would need the high quality tubulars which are more expensive? with the fp black, won't it work fine with the stock manifold? i've seen multiple builds without using a tubular for this setup. just wondering.
strmtrp,
10k is a hot price for the performance. where i am people buy 80k cars like soda even though they are just luxury vehicles that put 400 wheel or so like an m3 conv from dealer new. so this evo will pop a squat on that m3 for a low price. so yea not a bad way to spend 10k. regarding the wife statement, it doesn't make sense. this is not like changing motor oil, this requires far more experience than "i worked on cars with my dad on sundays" sooo... yea...... nice build
#107
Evolved Member
iTrader: (30)
Ted,
thank you for the very informative post (as always). One thing I want to make sure I am clear on and anyone reading is, is that effective duration is not the same as advertised. For instance (and in talking to Anders as well) I am running cams that are 236@ 1mm and more lift with the head ported literally thru the casting on one port. They are still 274 advertised so realistically we have only altered the ramp rate to improve cylinder filling and evacuation.
I have heard about your cams so I know what we could be doing, at what point would you think the trade off between ramp rate and advertised duration has been overrun? Running the sim I am thinking I could probably squeeze another 6-8* before i really need to start adding some more advertised duration back in.
For reference/results to what Ted is talking about as far as cams and more effective duration-
2.2LR had off the shelf S2s and the Jeff Bush ported head the car still has. The cams spec'd at 226/230 with 11.2 and 11mm lift. It made peak power with the 3586 at 7600rpm at 30psi.
I now have a 2.4LR, same head, and cams that are 236/236, 12mm and 11.7mm respective. The power peak has moved to 7900 at 30psi. Altering the MIVEC from where I had it didnt change the peak rpm but did broaden the rpm range at peak power.
#108
Evolved Member
iTrader: (78)
ted b,
cheapie manifolds crack like the megan. what is wrong with the stock cast manifold? sure the best gains won't be achieved, but you would need the high quality tubulars which are more expensive? with the fp black, won't it work fine with the stock manifold? i've seen multiple builds without using a tubular for this setup. just wondering.
strmtrp,
10k is a hot price for the performance. where i am people buy 80k cars like soda (nice one had me thcrying laughing at work just bought a soda just now from the machine lol) even ough they are just luxury vehicles that put 400 wheel or so like an m3 conv from dealer new. so this evo will pop a squat on that m3 for a low price. so yea not a bad way to spend 10k. regarding the wife statement, it doesn't make sense. this is not like changing motor oil, this requires far more experience than "i worked on cars with my dad on sundays" sooo... yea...... nice build
cheapie manifolds crack like the megan. what is wrong with the stock cast manifold? sure the best gains won't be achieved, but you would need the high quality tubulars which are more expensive? with the fp black, won't it work fine with the stock manifold? i've seen multiple builds without using a tubular for this setup. just wondering.
strmtrp,
10k is a hot price for the performance. where i am people buy 80k cars like soda (nice one had me thcrying laughing at work just bought a soda just now from the machine lol) even ough they are just luxury vehicles that put 400 wheel or so like an m3 conv from dealer new. so this evo will pop a squat on that m3 for a low price. so yea not a bad way to spend 10k. regarding the wife statement, it doesn't make sense. this is not like changing motor oil, this requires far more experience than "i worked on cars with my dad on sundays" sooo... yea...... nice build
lol i laugh at 10k. If your doing a full build you will exceed that easy enough for all the work thats involved. I been getting stupid killer deals on my parts New and used and im above that. long as im below the evo average of 25k for a full build im happy i still have like 3k before i hit 20k. and i have nothing to spend 3k on just a 130$ gtspec front strut bar. Oh i might get a built tranny later but still will not touch 3k.
John bradley mind helping me out and directing me toward what ted b and mikey are talking about since your getting one for him i wanna see it and red up on it etc see if its something i should include in my build
Last edited by RockmanX; Jun 2, 2010 at 09:48 AM.
#111
lol i laugh at 10k. If your doing a full build you will exceed that easy enough for all the work thats involved. I been getting stupid killer deals on my parts New and used and im above that. long as im below the evo average of 25k for a full build im happy i still have like 3k before i hit 20k. and i have nothing to spend 3k on just a 130$ gtspec front strut bar. Oh i might get a built tranny later but still will not touch 3k.
John bradley mind helping me out and directing me toward what ted b and mikey are talking about since your getting one for him i wanna see it and red up on it etc see if its something i should include in my build
John bradley mind helping me out and directing me toward what ted b and mikey are talking about since your getting one for him i wanna see it and red up on it etc see if its something i should include in my build
Rock, Here is the link of the Oil Pressure Reg on Kigglys website. http://www.kigglyracing.com/parts/HL..._Regulator.htm
Here are two evom links: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/en...-reg-evos.html https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...rth-doing.html
Hope that answers your questions. After reading up on it, it looks like a great mod!!! Def don't want oil problems in your 50K dollar motor
Mikey
#112
Evolved Member
iTrader: (11)
lol i laugh at 10k. If your doing a full build you will exceed that easy enough for all the work thats involved. I been getting stupid killer deals on my parts New and used and im above that. long as im below the evo average of 25k for a full build im happy i still have like 3k before i hit 20k. and i have nothing to spend 3k on just a 130$ gtspec front strut bar. Oh i might get a built tranny later but still will not touch 3k.
John bradley mind helping me out and directing me toward what ted b and mikey are talking about since your getting one for him i wanna see it and red up on it etc see if its something i should include in my build
John bradley mind helping me out and directing me toward what ted b and mikey are talking about since your getting one for him i wanna see it and red up on it etc see if its something i should include in my build
#113
Evolving Member
Yeah, very jealous.
Wish i could afford a $25k car and then throw another $25k at it...
Not to worry, I've got something up my sleeve as well.
Damn, after reading all of your posts, you guys drop hella money on your cars...
I've got to move out of Comifornia...
To all with deep pockets...
Wish i could afford a $25k car and then throw another $25k at it...
Not to worry, I've got something up my sleeve as well.
Damn, after reading all of your posts, you guys drop hella money on your cars...
I've got to move out of Comifornia...
To all with deep pockets...
Last edited by Strm Trpr; Jun 2, 2010 at 10:47 AM.
#114
Evolved Member
iTrader: (78)
shorties
2.0 3100
2.1 4600
2.2 ?? 9279.95 to much
2.3 3500
2.3RR 7999.95
2.4 3300
LR2.4 6500
built head
1700
i mean on average pricing i mean thats already 5900 on just the long block did not include core charges or all bolt ons or turbo upgrade or tune or guages lol your almost at 10k there with the longblock. unless your just doing bolt ons and turbo dont expect to really see whats going on or get the full use out of the parts.
#115
Evolved Member
iTrader: (78)
Everyone, I don't mind paying money to have a good setup. You pay to play and ER is my bank
Rock, Here is the link of the Oil Pressure Reg on Kigglys website. http://www.kigglyracing.com/parts/HL..._Regulator.htm
Here are two evom links: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/en...-reg-evos.html https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...rth-doing.html
Hope that answers your questions. After reading up on it, it looks like a great mod!!! Def don't want oil problems in your 50K dollar motor
Mikey
Rock, Here is the link of the Oil Pressure Reg on Kigglys website. http://www.kigglyracing.com/parts/HL..._Regulator.htm
Here are two evom links: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/en...-reg-evos.html https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...rth-doing.html
Hope that answers your questions. After reading up on it, it looks like a great mod!!! Def don't want oil problems in your 50K dollar motor
Mikey
#118
I'm not much of a 100mm stroke advocate, but I've been asked by the OP to chime in, so here it goes:
Even a 156mm rod with 100mm stroke crank gives a R/S ratio of only 1.56, or 4% better than a 150mm rod, which is minimal. Still, if it can be done rather easily, better 1.56 than 1.50.
The larger displacement and short rod ratio places greater demands on the intake port, which is no barn burner to begin with. Where the EVO head is concerned, I'm an advocate of porting to the very limit of what the casting will accept, simply because in this case, one runs out of metal before getting enough airflow. In my own situation, that required CNC porting and two sacrificial heads.
The 10:1 SCR is livable - just don't try to break power records with 93 octane. Make E85 the primary fuel.
I feel the I-beam rods are the best option for ultra high torque applications.
With respect to cams, longer effective duration is the rule for longer strokes and shorter R/S ratios. The slower piston movement around BDC reduces the sensitivity of the engine to delayed intake valve closing, while the increased acceleration away from TDC and higher SCR offset the negative impact of the longer duration at slower engine speeds.
I'm not sure so optimistic about the factory exhaust manifold (even ported) for this application. Some years ago, I bolted on a cheapie tubular to my TME turbo and saw an immediate torque improvement across the board. Both Full-Race and Shearer have tubular designs that should outperform the factory part, and of course, one never knows about missing power, unless of course he finds it.
As for adding meth injection, I'd pass on that idea. It's just another inevitable headache, and you'll run out of turbo capacity before you reach the limits of what E85 can handle. I converted my existing SMC injection setup to H2O, and use it only as a measure of forgiveness when running 93 octane.
Oh, if you're using a factory crank, I suggest Kiggly's top end oil pressure regulator. It's cheap means of ensuring full oil pressure to Mitsu's long stroke crankshaft, which is not optimized for high rpm oiling efficiency.
Just my $0.02 as requested.
Even a 156mm rod with 100mm stroke crank gives a R/S ratio of only 1.56, or 4% better than a 150mm rod, which is minimal. Still, if it can be done rather easily, better 1.56 than 1.50.
The larger displacement and short rod ratio places greater demands on the intake port, which is no barn burner to begin with. Where the EVO head is concerned, I'm an advocate of porting to the very limit of what the casting will accept, simply because in this case, one runs out of metal before getting enough airflow. In my own situation, that required CNC porting and two sacrificial heads.
The 10:1 SCR is livable - just don't try to break power records with 93 octane. Make E85 the primary fuel.
I feel the I-beam rods are the best option for ultra high torque applications.
With respect to cams, longer effective duration is the rule for longer strokes and shorter R/S ratios. The slower piston movement around BDC reduces the sensitivity of the engine to delayed intake valve closing, while the increased acceleration away from TDC and higher SCR offset the negative impact of the longer duration at slower engine speeds.
I'm not sure so optimistic about the factory exhaust manifold (even ported) for this application. Some years ago, I bolted on a cheapie tubular to my TME turbo and saw an immediate torque improvement across the board. Both Full-Race and Shearer have tubular designs that should outperform the factory part, and of course, one never knows about missing power, unless of course he finds it.
As for adding meth injection, I'd pass on that idea. It's just another inevitable headache, and you'll run out of turbo capacity before you reach the limits of what E85 can handle. I converted my existing SMC injection setup to H2O, and use it only as a measure of forgiveness when running 93 octane.
Oh, if you're using a factory crank, I suggest Kiggly's top end oil pressure regulator. It's cheap means of ensuring full oil pressure to Mitsu's long stroke crankshaft, which is not optimized for high rpm oiling efficiency.
Just my $0.02 as requested.
#120
Evolving Member
lol
shorties
2.0 3100
2.1 4600
2.2 ?? 9279.95 to much
2.3 3500
2.3RR 7999.95
2.4 3300
LR2.4 6500
built head
1700
i mean on average pricing i mean thats already 5900 on just the long block did not include core charges or all bolt ons or turbo upgrade or tune or guages lol your almost at 10k there with the longblock. unless your just doing bolt ons and turbo dont expect to really see whats going on or get the full use out of the parts.
shorties
2.0 3100
2.1 4600
2.2 ?? 9279.95 to much
2.3 3500
2.3RR 7999.95
2.4 3300
LR2.4 6500
built head
1700
i mean on average pricing i mean thats already 5900 on just the long block did not include core charges or all bolt ons or turbo upgrade or tune or guages lol your almost at 10k there with the longblock. unless your just doing bolt ons and turbo dont expect to really see whats going on or get the full use out of the parts.
Why so many, did you blow them up, or sell them?
How's the AMS 2.3RR?
I'm actually starting my first build evar.
Forged LR2.0L
Curt Brown Spec'd 2g Head
JMF Drag SMIM
FP4R's
16cm^2 (1.1A/R) Divided T3 Holset HX35 (60lb/min Compressor Wheel)
Shearer Fab 1.25" Primary Divided T3 Manifold.
Jack's AWD Transmission w/Quaife ATB
**** that's approximately $11k right there, WTF am I talking about.
Should be an azzkckr...