h-beams and oem bearings handle big power?
May 6, 2010 | 09:46 PM
#1
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h-beams and oem bearings handle big power?
I'm planning on upgrading to something around a 6262 size and flow-wise. my motor is a built 2.0l with wiseco pistons and eagle h-beam rods. When the motor was rebuilt about 60k miles ago (with the aftermarket parts), the shop installed oem bearings. I will be tearing the head apart and putting in springs and retainers, and I have cams. Just worried about the bottom end.
Will I be safe using oem bearings, or do I need to pull the motor back out and go acl bearings? also, will the h-beams be safe to handle 600+awhp?
Will I be safe using oem bearings, or do I need to pull the motor back out and go acl bearings? also, will the h-beams be safe to handle 600+awhp?
May 6, 2010 | 10:49 PM
#2
not really a built motor without bearings and main studs lol. i would upgrade for peace of mind i dont know much about eagle rods so your guess is as good as mine. i have manley i beams in mine.
May 7, 2010 | 09:54 AM
#3
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however, im not sure its worth the risk of spinning a bearing and blowing a motor
.the h-beam ratings tell me they will be fine NOW, im just worried about upping the boost later. I was hoping someone could prove or disprove the h-beam ratings. are they safe to push? or is the limit cutting it close?
May 7, 2010 | 11:05 AM
#4
H-Beams aren't great. I dunno what they're rated for but 600-650 seems a good stopping place for me. OEM bearings will run. They're still really good pieces, they were engineered for a performance application. What's your valvetrain?
I don't know of many built motors that use main studs. The stock bolt is very strong.
I don't know of many built motors that use main studs. The stock bolt is very strong.
May 7, 2010 | 08:23 PM
#5
agreed. its got the studs, just not bearings. the only thing swaying me the other way is that they were replaced with the build (previous owner), and that there are people with stock motors running similar setups.
however, im not sure its worth the risk of spinning a bearing and blowing a motor.
the h-beam ratings tell me they will be fine NOW, im just worried about upping the boost later. I was hoping someone could prove or disprove the h-beam ratings. are they safe to push? or is the limit cutting it close?
however, im not sure its worth the risk of spinning a bearing and blowing a motor
.the h-beam ratings tell me they will be fine NOW, im just worried about upping the boost later. I was hoping someone could prove or disprove the h-beam ratings. are they safe to push? or is the limit cutting it close?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ods-stand.html
It seems that 500 tq was the limit that most say to stay under (the link talks about Manleys H-beam rods, which IMO make a better product than Eagle). So they are stronger than the stock rods, but not by more than 100 foot pounds. It is the torque you have to worry about, not the horsepower. The fact that you have a 2.0 is better though, so you aren't going to be spooling that turbo up really early, leading to a good bit of early RPM torque, which is a SERIOUS strain on connecting rods.
If you are going to be pushing in the high 400's to low 500's I would ditch the H-beams and up it to some I-beam rods. If you take that as a good rule of thumb, then if you must replace the rods then you can swap out the bearings while you are in there for a good piece of mind.
I would be more worried about the limits of your rods than those bearings, IMO. Good luck.
Last edited by buchnerj; May 7, 2010 at 08:27 PM.
May 7, 2010 | 09:21 PM
#6
I beam rods FTW. im glad my motor had them and i was thinking i had h beams lucky me LOL. do it once man and get the i beam rods acl bearings and main studs and call it a day so you dont have to worry about anything
May 7, 2010 | 09:48 PM
#7
I'm just saying there are many fast cars using the stock main bolts. It's also been said that the engine requires a line hone after switching to studs, that or a bolt alignment kit. So for someone on a budget it saves you $200.
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May 7, 2010 | 10:30 PM
#8
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OEM bearings should be alright. There are many builds that use different main studs. I am not sure what the poster above is talking about, but ARP (and others) make a very good main stud that many use in their motors and builders use in their upgraded shortblock assemblies.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ods-stand.html
It seems that 500 tq was the limit that most say to stay under (the link talks about Manleys H-beam rods, which IMO make a better product than Eagle). So they are stronger than the stock rods, but not by more than 100 foot pounds. It is the torque you have to worry about, not the horsepower. The fact that you have a 2.0 is better though, so you aren't going to be spooling that turbo up really early, leading to a good bit of early RPM torque, which is a SERIOUS strain on connecting rods.
If you are going to be pushing in the high 400's to low 500's I would ditch the H-beams and up it to some I-beam rods. If you take that as a good rule of thumb, then if you must replace the rods then you can swap out the bearings while you are in there for a good piece of mind.
I would be more worried about the limits of your rods than those bearings, IMO. Good luck.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ods-stand.html
It seems that 500 tq was the limit that most say to stay under (the link talks about Manleys H-beam rods, which IMO make a better product than Eagle). So they are stronger than the stock rods, but not by more than 100 foot pounds. It is the torque you have to worry about, not the horsepower. The fact that you have a 2.0 is better though, so you aren't going to be spooling that turbo up really early, leading to a good bit of early RPM torque, which is a SERIOUS strain on connecting rods.
If you are going to be pushing in the high 400's to low 500's I would ditch the H-beams and up it to some I-beam rods. If you take that as a good rule of thumb, then if you must replace the rods then you can swap out the bearings while you are in there for a good piece of mind.
I would be more worried about the limits of your rods than those bearings, IMO. Good luck.
.im looking to run 600awhp on pump on a 6262 or something of comparable size, so its looking like an upgrade is in order.. which leads me to my next question (and also answers my bearing question, as i might as well replace those while im in there..):
i have wiseco 9.0:1 compression pistons. are those going to be a weak link as well? or will those paired with some i-beams be ok?
May 7, 2010 | 11:38 PM
#9
aftermarket studs are only 60 lol. i have not heard of need to line hone or alignment using them.
May 8, 2010 | 12:15 AM
#10
I'm not saying it's always necessary either, but just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it's wrong.
Sorry for the digging, but I just did a search on mains studs. There is no doubt that they are better. Sure the cradle is stronger and helps align everything better than having individual caps, however studs distribute the clamping force between 2 sets of threads.
I do believe that the stock bolts will hold up to serious horsepower, but like someone said its a cheap piece of mind right? Well sort of.. I have no experience with newer evo 4g63s and main studs, but a rule of thumb in engine machining is that you will have to align hone the mains if you switch to after market fasteners, especially to studs. That usually applies to rod bolts as well, even tho people in the evo and ls1 world (probably more newer engines) definitely get away with not re machining the rods. I do have first hand experience with dsm mains distorting enough that they need an align hone after stud install. My personal one was just a few tenths of a thousandth away from getting away with not honing the mains.
This depending on the shop, could be another $150 to $300. Still not bad, but these blocks are pretty well machined to begin with. If you do not have high dollar dial bore gauges (and I dont mean a few hundred, I mean $1k or more) and cant measure to check a local shops work, I would have to ask my self am I really building something that will be asking too much of the stock stuff.
I do believe that the stock bolts will hold up to serious horsepower, but like someone said its a cheap piece of mind right? Well sort of.. I have no experience with newer evo 4g63s and main studs, but a rule of thumb in engine machining is that you will have to align hone the mains if you switch to after market fasteners, especially to studs. That usually applies to rod bolts as well, even tho people in the evo and ls1 world (probably more newer engines) definitely get away with not re machining the rods. I do have first hand experience with dsm mains distorting enough that they need an align hone after stud install. My personal one was just a few tenths of a thousandth away from getting away with not honing the mains.
This depending on the shop, could be another $150 to $300. Still not bad, but these blocks are pretty well machined to begin with. If you do not have high dollar dial bore gauges (and I dont mean a few hundred, I mean $1k or more) and cant measure to check a local shops work, I would have to ask my self am I really building something that will be asking too much of the stock stuff.
May 8, 2010 | 12:45 AM
#12
May 8, 2010 | 12:05 PM
#14
Hey I just noticed Houston and Lubbock. I hate being both of those places :-D
The problem with those weiscos is the pins start to flex and causes the skirt to crack. The HD use better skirt bracing and its well worth the upgrade. If you're going to pull it apart anyway, try to sell those and get the HDs and I-beams.
But that all really depends on how much power you want to make, 700-800? If you're only looking for 650 what you have will work, especially if you keep the RPMs under control. Piston speed is what kills the skirts in the weiscos. Piston speed is also what puts alot of the stress on the rod. So don't go much above 8k.
The problem with those weiscos is the pins start to flex and causes the skirt to crack. The HD use better skirt bracing and its well worth the upgrade. If you're going to pull it apart anyway, try to sell those and get the HDs and I-beams.
But that all really depends on how much power you want to make, 700-800? If you're only looking for 650 what you have will work, especially if you keep the RPMs under control. Piston speed is what kills the skirts in the weiscos. Piston speed is also what puts alot of the stress on the rod. So don't go much above 8k.
May 9, 2010 | 10:26 AM
#15
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Hey I just noticed Houston and Lubbock. I hate being both of those places :-D
The problem with those weiscos is the pins start to flex and causes the skirt to crack. The HD use better skirt bracing and its well worth the upgrade. If you're going to pull it apart anyway, try to sell those and get the HDs and I-beams.
But that all really depends on how much power you want to make, 700-800? If you're only looking for 650 what you have will work, especially if you keep the RPMs under control. Piston speed is what kills the skirts in the weiscos. Piston speed is also what puts alot of the stress on the rod. So don't go much above 8k.
The problem with those weiscos is the pins start to flex and causes the skirt to crack. The HD use better skirt bracing and its well worth the upgrade. If you're going to pull it apart anyway, try to sell those and get the HDs and I-beams.
But that all really depends on how much power you want to make, 700-800? If you're only looking for 650 what you have will work, especially if you keep the RPMs under control. Piston speed is what kills the skirts in the weiscos. Piston speed is also what puts alot of the stress on the rod. So don't go much above 8k.
well im looking at being at right about 600 this summer, so what i have will be fine. Im just thinking about the future, and if ill want to up the boost more. with the turbos im looking at, ill be most likely revving above 8k since they dont start making power until after 5k.