Valvoline VR1 20w-50 Race Oil?
May 28, 2010, 05:59 AM
#31
http://www.amsoil.com/graphs/dominat...urBall_900.jpg Your answer has no valid data, it's just "it works" and "thats what he recommends." Why?? Buschur is not the authority on oil, and half a million dollar race cars run Amsoil and mobil 1. Why would the brian penn "perform" better than dominator? Can you elaborate? This is not to fight, I just need to know why he is saying this in more technical terms.
Buschur, if you can chime in that'd be great. Thanks
Buschur, if you can chime in that'd be great. Thanks
Mike and Buschur and all engine builders are people they have lived a life of experience and if they feel something works better then they choose their oil based on that. Synthetic test are nice but they dont always show real world circumstances just like dyno will give you a horse power number but your car will run different day to day based on numerous variables.
Josh
May 28, 2010, 06:06 AM
#32
wreckless,
thank you for the honest answer. If it is just "general preference" and "its worked well for me out there" I can understand. But as far as saying this will work better on my engine, why? the only logical recommendation from a builder that would make sense would be if they said use this weight 10w 15w 20w etc and fully synthetic etc. But i get what you mean man. I guess the same can be said about rod and piston companies.
thank you for the honest answer. If it is just "general preference" and "its worked well for me out there" I can understand. But as far as saying this will work better on my engine, why? the only logical recommendation from a builder that would make sense would be if they said use this weight 10w 15w 20w etc and fully synthetic etc. But i get what you mean man. I guess the same can be said about rod and piston companies.
May 28, 2010, 06:16 AM
#33
wreckless,
thank you for the honest answer. If it is just "general preference" and "its worked well for me out there" I can understand. But as far as saying this will work better on my engine, why? the only logical recommendation from a builder that would make sense would be if they said use this weight 10w 15w 20w etc and fully synthetic etc. But i get what you mean man. I guess the same can be said about rod and piston companies.
thank you for the honest answer. If it is just "general preference" and "its worked well for me out there" I can understand. But as far as saying this will work better on my engine, why? the only logical recommendation from a builder that would make sense would be if they said use this weight 10w 15w 20w etc and fully synthetic etc. But i get what you mean man. I guess the same can be said about rod and piston companies.
Id like a test with 2 Evos driving X amount of miles with 2 different oils then lets see those babies pulled apart. That's a test that would get my attention.
And considering how many engines Mike and David have pulled apart I'm inclined to listen to whatever they have to say lol
May 28, 2010, 06:38 AM
#34
i stand corrected. the data from amsoil is not applicable enough to buschur or mike's "Real world" data. but this doesn't explain why any oil other than fully synthetic would ever be preferred. it would explain what has worked for them but not "better than synthetic" like the op's mechanic said.
May 28, 2010, 07:06 AM
#35
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i stand corrected. the data from amsoil is not applicable enough to buschur or mike's "Real world" data. but this doesn't explain why any oil other than fully synthetic would ever be preferred. it would explain what has worked for them but not "better than synthetic" like the op's mechanic said.
i know guys who change it after every track event...or dyno session...if you are going to do that...then it never has the chance to break down the oil...
so why waste the money on syn?
May 28, 2010, 10:53 AM
#36
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I just saw and ad for Vr1 20w 50 race oil in full synthetic. I just put the Vr1 20w 50 in and would be glad to send a small sample to someone when i change my oil. Ill probably go Vr1 2-w 50 race oil full sythetic in 2k miles.
May 28, 2010, 12:38 PM
#37
true but if you are going to change your oil once a month or every 1500 miles there is no need for synthetic...buy the cheap ****...
i know guys who change it after every track event...or dyno session...if you are going to do that...then it never has the chance to break down the oil...
so why waste the money on syn?
i know guys who change it after every track event...or dyno session...if you are going to do that...then it never has the chance to break down the oil...
so why waste the money on syn?
Let me explain my thought process with this example...
I change my oil in my TT car after each day of racing - typical day is 4-to-5 20 minute sessions, aprx ~120 miles... My car consumes, in road race mode ~ 4mpg - I easily burn threw 30 gallons of fuel in a day - and a set of tires for sure
These are not normal driving conditions that a street driven car sees - the amount of continuous heavy loads, high rev's and HEAT produced in a single day of racing is more than majority of car's see in a lifetime... Now on a street driven car or High HP/Race car, you get the same byproducts of burnt fuel, i.e., carbon, soot, water, nitric acid, etc., this is often referred to as 'contamination'. These byproducts end up contaminating the oil, but at a much longer duration on a street driven car given the nature of the driving environment and duration that it takes to consume fuel/mpg. Changing your oil removes the byproducts and 1k-2k miles oil change intervals on a street driven car is acceptable in most cases...
MPG Comparison:
Street Driven Car @ 23mpg * 30 gallons of fuel = 690 miles...
High HP/Race Car @ 4mpg * 30 gallons of fuel = 120 miles...
Now factor in that street driven car rarely sees 'continuous' heavy loads, high rev's and does not generate the excessive heat you do in race conditions, oil change intervals can be extended between 1k-2k miles based upon your driving habits...
Now, given the above, some might be asking themselves then what's the difference between conventional oil vs racing synthetics and if the byproducts that cause contamination are a condition of fuel burnt, then increase oil change intervals should be sufficient in all conditions...? That's where I disagree. The key driver why racing synthetic oils have the advantage over conventional motor oils are the additives and oils they formulate into their blends to resist 'breakdown' under High HP/Racing conditions... Please note, 'oil breakdown' is much different than 'byproduct contamination' from burning fuel.
I agree with your statement if the conditions are the same - just increase oil change intervals to remove the byproducts/contamination from burning fuel... But when you're producing High HP (more the HP, more the heat) and/or racing (continuous heavy loads/high rev's), you need a product that can operate in those conditions and not 'breakdown', formulated synthetics can, and other oils can not. All synthetics are not created equal, and the same can be said for conventional oils, but that's a whole other can of worms...
Cliff notes:
- Burning fuel causes byproducts that contaminate oil
- The more fuel you burn, then more contaminates in your oil
- Oil changes remove contaminates
- High HP/Race cars burn more fuel than street driven cars (note fuel consumed and not mileage driven when determining oil change intervals)
- Oil breakdown is different than oil contamination
- Breakdown can happen rapidly in High HP/Race cars do to continuous heavy loads/high rev's and excessive heat
- Formulated race synthetics have additives and oils to prevent breakdown, conventional oils do not
Last edited by Philthy748; May 28, 2010 at 02:15 PM.
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