n2oiroc

iTrader: (33)

you didnt specify the rpm in the post hence the confusion.

Spec-Ops1

iTrader: (38)

I wish people would post some graphs for comparison...

I personally have a T3TS3586 w/ 1.06 .... at 28 psi, running out of my single pump and 1000cc inj by 6500 rpms, i still put down 470/420. I believe with some fuel its capable of 550 on pump without a problem. I am sure a T4 platform would yield more HP, i'm not so sure that the T4 would spool as quickly. Since my EBC is now tuned better, i hit 28psi by 4600 to 4700 rpms.

03whitegsr

iTrader: (8)

One person claims 28 psi at 4600 RPM on a T3 TS 1.06 housing using the HTA3582

Another claims 20 psi at 3000 RPM on a T4 TS 1.06 housing using the HTA3582

I don't think it's going to take 1600 RPM to go from 20 PSI to 28 PSI...

Riceball, mind posting a datalog?

Spec-Ops1

iTrader: (38)

i have a 3586

RSMike

iTrader: (1)

I'm ordering the T3 TS 1.06 housing for the GT30 turbine tonight.
Not sure when the results will be in, but i'll be sure to update this thread when they are in.
Probably 4-6weeks.
Then HKS3037, GT3082 and HTA3582 comparisons after that.

03whitegsr

iTrader: (8)

Read it as 3582, my mistake.

I still don't think that accounts for the 1600 RPM reported difference though.

Spec-Ops1

iTrader: (38)

i agree... logs are in order for sure.

we should have a solid comparison soon... we have another t4ts3586 we will be building soon as well... i'll be tuning them both so that should take any biasing out of the equation as well. Cars are modded similarly as well.

I will say something i know for sure and have a graph to prove.... my setup now kicks the crap out of my old gt35 with .82 ar setup i was running prior to this.

scorke

iTrader: (18)

Post a dynograph.

You should be able to make more than that out of a walboro and 1000cc's, not much, but some

Scorke

Spec-Ops1

iTrader: (38)

Injectors were maxed... no doubt about that. I think I could have gotten more with it, but there was no reason to push the car for numbers when it was bordering on unsafe due to the injectors running out. That is a mustang dyno 470/420 that typically reads pretty close to Buschur's.

Here is the comparison between the 2 cars. To point out a few of the different variables involved...
- - - - Gt35R w/ .82 A/R / Not sure if it was with a built head or not, can't get a real answer / Different Tuner
____ HTA3586 T3TS w/ 1.06 A/R / Stock head / Tuned by Spec Ops / More room w/ more fuel

Broham

iTrader: (10)

jason, do you prefer your 3586 ts to the stock frame turbos? if so whY? thanks man

03whitegsr

iTrader: (8)

This goes along with what I have said before, but two different cars, two different turbos, two different setups. The results aren't "fair."

Looking at the graph, you can see the potential for the improvement in spool, however the TS setup is running more boost yet is dropping power faster as the revs raise. That 1.06 A/R divided housing is about the same as a 0.63 A/R T3 single scroll housing and it performs on the top end similarly. For it to be a more fair comparison, you'd need to run the same boost and a 0.63 A/R T3 single scroll housing. If you did that, I think you'd see the car make similar top end and the difference in spool would be much less.

AWD Motorsports

iTrader: (211)

hmmmm..

Geoff Raicer

iTrader: (7)

good discussion. 03white - i believe you may be overlooking the transient and torque benefits that twinscroll offers over singlescroll. Even IF the .63 spooled the same on a WOT dynopull as the 1.06, youre going to have huge differences in throttle response (esp at part throttle points) that the dyno wont show - as everyone who has felt the difference can attest to in this thread.

some more fuel for the fire:

Spec-Ops1

iTrader: (38)

Geoff brings up the main point i believe that everyone overlooks. The throttle response is a ton better. With the open scroll setup, especially with the .82 hotside that was on that one, it sits and waits as boost starts to build then their is that rush when it does finally spool and bam you are in boost.... with the twin, their isn't much wait for build as the entire RPM spool is about 500 rpms faster. Yes i am running more boost in my comparison i posted but the benefit to twin over open is the spool and earlier felt torque. Keep in mind, as you said, the total volume of my divided 1.06 is equivalent to the .63.... that is a .82's power level that is being shown which typically is quite a bit higher than a .63 .... in order to compare spool, yes, the .63 would be a closer equivalent, however my top end power is still higher with this setup than the .63 would typically produce on the same dyno and same car.

On a side note.... this discussion will probably gain a lot of important information for everyone to consider when choosing between the open scroll and t3 t4 twin platforms.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Note to all: comparing two different cars should be taken FWIW, which is wholly unscientific.

FWIW however, 470whp on that dyno is ~540whp in Dynojet terms, which is respectable for that turbo with a relatively small 1.06 T3 TS housing. However, that shouldn't be viewed real-world limitation for that particular TS T3 housing, which is generating around 600whp on Drifto's E85-running HTA3076 - not too shabby.


Which is why trying to resolve real-world transient response and driving characteristics of TS with a static WOT dyno chart doesn't work.



Which article is that?