MagicManRed

iTrader: (14)

In a matter of 1 month, I have consumed so much information about different turbos that I think I have sustained a bit brain damage

I'll try to keep this short and sweet. The motor was stroked because I want every bit if response I can get... however, I do not want to risk too much high end.

Car will be used as a daily.
Drag strips maybe once ever month or two.
I will be aiming its purpose at time attack.

Currently, my FP Red (original version) put down a max of 400/480 (93 octane) on stock block and many supporting mods. It runs anywhere between 27-30psi.

The full spool would be somewhere between 4400-4650 according to all of my AEM logs. The emptiness of power at the 2500rpm - 4400rpm range upsets me to say the least

Also, I dislike the red's ability to maintain torque across the band. Most importantly however, is it's lack of ***** (ball bearings) I'm not a fan of journal bearing for autoX.

I have researched the following turbos:
p6262
hta3586r
hta3582r
hta3076r
ams 900r
ams 750r
maybe a few more I'm not mentioning, but the one's above are very similar.

From what I've gathered, the 3586 is HUGE, and I'm going to slap myself in the face after feeling the lag it has.

The 3582 I hear is a less laggier version (with a bit drop on power that to me is of no significance), and holds torque pretty well if you match it with the right a/r housing.

The 3076 seems to be what everyone is pointing at me for spool and quick re-spool between shifts. However, what upsets me is its output. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this thing seems to have issues reaching 500 on pump? I don't want to go backwards. I already can produce 480, granted I have bad spool, but then why the hell go with ball bearing? and a more advanced turbo? I'd expect a little more power and a lot quicker spool?? I guess it's too much to ask for the world huh?

the ams 750r seems to be a 3076 from what I've noticed. any more info on any of this?

What I would love is if you guys can post any dyno pulls with according motor size/compression boost/fuel of these turbos. (and if possible, the housings they are using, and if they are TS -twin scroll- or not)

I know a lot of the Evo guys love the single scroll manifolds for ease, but chances are, I'll be going twin scroll, hell I'll even do a t3 sized twin scroll (1.06 a/r minimum though)

My goals: (just to put it in perspective... this should be all on pump gas)
• I want full spool (max TQ) on pump at 4000rpms or less if at all insanely possible.
• I want it to put down that TQ across the band to 7000rpms as much as possible.
(I don't mind if it drops below 400TQ after 7k or a little earlier than 7k, I'll be shifting at 8k-8500rpm at most anyhow).
• I want it to be twin scroll.
• After further understanding of what t3/t4 is, (I believe it's just size, and one is quicker spool than the other) I will want the one that spools faster, and just go with a huge a/r to make up for the small t3. Most likely a t3 1.06 since I think the t3 is the one that spools faster, unless someone can convince/explain to me otherwise. Then again, this all depends on turbo and whatever I'll need to do to hold that TQ without sacrificing spool / boost drop between shifts.
• From what I've seen on dyno sheets, I don't see why 550whp wouldn't be achievable if the TQ is held long enough across the band.

If this wasn't a daily car, I probably wouldn't be asking the task of what seems to be impossible, because the above is VERY possible on e85, c/q16, meth, race. I just don't want to have to worry about... "oh darn, I don't have good power right now cause I'm on pump" or... "eh, I don't feel like draining my tank just to get over 530whp on this track day" if you know what I mean? I understand that generally going from pump to any of those other above mentioned fuels will most likely give you another 100whp, so I'm already factoring that into my head. I don't see myself needing more than 650 on race (this will just be for $hits and giggles at the drag strip) but that power on road racing is probably going to be no fun for me unless I spend 14k on a different more aggressive suspension, 10k on more aero and another 10k or so on even bigger brakes.

I saw this video on YouTube of some turbo called the 3082 aka fp3065? It put down exactly the numbers I'd like (actually it put down quite some more) on e85, and the psi that I'd run (28-32). Actually the build was very similar as well.
However, the curves were horrible. Very peaked power that dropped quickly.
So if I could sacrifice 50hp+50tq on e85 with those numbers for a little more power early, and holding the power later... (to flatten the power band) that would be my fantasy.

AMS, ETS, Full Race, Shearer, The Shop CT, TurboTrix, AWD, Buschur, and all of the Evo community... Where you at? (anyone that I forgot... bring on the knowledge!)

evodude32

iTrader: (1)

Those numbers in that video are a bit inflated, uncorrected numbers came in a 622whp can't remember the tq numbers off the top of my head. Power drops off at top cause that turbo was maxed out completely and it was out of cam (HKS 280 cams), so that is the reason behind the nasty drop in hp and tq. The tune was completely maxed out as well and pushed hard to get those numbers. Although the car is going to be strapped to another dyno to confirm the numbers sometime in the near future.

That car will be getting a larger exhaust housing (tial SS v-band 1.06 A/R) it currently has a .82 A/R housing on it now but is choked off. And a set of either kelford 272's or kelford 280's. And maybe an HTA treatment on the compressor side from FP

To achieve the numbers you want it's going to be hard to get full boost at 4k. But I think a HTA 3582r or the HTA 3586r will get the job done for ya. Maybe even a FP black turbo I've seen some put over 600whp already on that turbo, but how hard it was pushed is another question.

browningderek

iTrader: (7)

i got a BR 2.3 with the hta86. peak tq around 5200. not what you would call i fast spooler but it holds power all the way out. it does have noticeable lag during shifts. i vote for the hta 82. gain about 400rpm's over the 86 but still have plenty of power potential.

16vTAWD

iTrader: (11)

750r= 5857

Force-Fed Performance

iTrader: (46)

You got PM

Tonba

iTrader: (1)

Im running a 2.3L running 9.5:1 CR and an FP Evo Black.

I use the car for time attack and circuit work. Its a PERFECT combo. Full boost at 3,600rpm. Can go wrong. Torque feels fantastic!

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

568whp twinscroll 2.0 with HTA3076 and 1.06 divided T3 on E85:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...e85-33psi.html

585whp twinscroll 2.0 with HTA3582 and 1.06 divided T4 on 93 octane:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...82r-93oct.html


Both cars give throttle response unequalled by more common open housing setups. With increased displacement (e.g. 2.3-2.4L), you can extend those power curves several hundred rpm to the left. That should give you some idea of what to expect with intelligent parts selection and competent tuning.

3gEclipseTurbo

iTrader: (12)

Whats the full boost 20psi? Seems kinda early for full boost on a black.

PeteyTurbo@KHC

iTrader: (1)

Hope this helps..
PT5857 on a 2.4.. No dyno results yet, but this gives you an idea of the curve..Unless you see the feilds to the left I would use VDR data as pure speculation..

Tonba

iTrader: (1)

25psi.

I can get 29psi in by 3,800rpm. Very responsive setup. I dont think that its that odd for a Black. Every graph I have seen has seen full boost around a similar number.

3gEclipseTurbo

iTrader: (12)

From what Ive seen full spool on a black, 35psi is around 4200-4400 depending on cams and such.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

That's believable for a 2.3.


Others may distort information. We don't.

Here they are in full, with a big smoothing factor just to squelch any doubt - no change.

Base - 568whp twinscroll 2.0 with HTA3076 and 1.06 divided T3 on E85 - Drifto
Comp - 585whp twinscroll 2.0 with HTA3582 and 1.06 divided T4 on 93 octane - Ted B.






Both of these are twinscroll cars.

Unless you really feel like shelling out lots of cash however, I might advise that you upgrade to an FP Black, especially if E85 is available to you.

Tonba

iTrader: (1)

I really think the FP Black is a GREAT match for a 2.3L.

RockmanX

iTrader: (78)

the way he is talking what he wants full spool by im like you should really consider a fp black

MagicManRed

iTrader: (14)

ahh, would love to see the end result


I want to get as close to 4000rpms full spool on pump as possible. 25psi max. 30 on e85. What crank/cr/headwork you have?

Interesting. Yeah, 5200rpm peak tq is too late for my liking


You got reply

That sounds fantastic... however, I REALLY want a ball bearing.

Interesting stuff. I think 3076 may just bee too small. I've been doing some reading on the billet pt5857, seems to be in between the hta3076, and hta3582. May just be the answers to my prayers, unless someone can convince me that my build can spool a hta3582 to 25psi on pump at 4k or less.

Yeah I agree. My red full spools at friggin 4500rpms (stock block though)

I think that calculator is off on this one. I think that turbo should spool a lot quicker. That turbo is capable of roughly 550 on pump right?

Can you link me to any of these graphs? this is interesting stuff. I wish they made that in a ball bearing.

True.

I have no problems shelling out 4-5k on a turbo kit. This is why I just want to make the right decision the first time around. Those numbers are great, but I still feel the 3582 is too big. I could live with 40 less hp for some better spool. And I also still feel the 3076 is too small, it couldn't put down over 500 on pump

no ball bearing

no ball bearing



I might as well tell you guys what this turbo is getting strapped onto.

4G64 block
GRP aluminum rods
10:1 wiseco pistons
acl race bearings
ams oil pan
ported/polished head with 1mm oversize valves
supertech double valve spring kit
272 kelford cams
magnus v5 intake manifold
2150 fic injectors
255 walbro intank, + inline.
perrin fuel rail + fpr
sparktech ignition

Should be done in no more than a week. most of the above is actually done already.

Trying to build a spool monster. Currently I have an old style FP Red (fully stock appearing version) and I'm going to run that to the ground after breaking in the motor. After that's done... I want to know which turbo I'm going to be slapping on.
That PT5857 is really looking tempting. If it out spools the hta3582r, and puts more power than the hta3076r, I think I'm sold. Going to probably put either a t3 or t4 1.06 divided (twin scroll) housing on it. I wouldn't mind the t3, but I fear it won't hold good tq across the band. It would spool hell quick, but I fear my peak HP will get affected later in the band.