The IPO Propane Injection System has the Propane Solenoid at the tank with a Dead fuel line running to the engine. Propane is not present in the line until it starts injecting (boost reached a preset PSI)

Why not keep the line "Live" from the tank to the engine then have solenoid under hood? If the car were to get into an accident and the propane fuel line where cut/ruptured the entire contents of the tank would emtpy out. BIG fire hazard.

In our system, there is no fuel in the line unless it is injecting. For this to occur, the system needs to see Ignition, and boost has to reach the preset PSI. In an accident, boost pressure would not be present and ign may or may not still be on. If the line is cut there is no fuel...The tank is shut off at the tank. Safety

Now you say, Nitrous systems run live lines from trunk to engine (not you but many do)...Nitrous is not flammable. If it totally emptied out a tank there would be no fire hazard..Unlike Propane.

 

ok foreget all this safety crap....hell its a safety hazard to walk down a street these days...........DYNO #'S is what we would like to see especially if you get a kit on a evo and dyno it.........safety this safety that...blah ........evreything is a hazard .....modifing these cars to haul *** is a hazard ........anyways the point here is to stop arguing and get dyno #'s........hopefully theres a group purchase later on if the performance gain is reasonable enough and the price is right......anyways here in miami we got some of the fastest turbo deisel's........ ive seen them using these kits for years and i havent seen on the news of a truck blowing up because he was injecting propane into the motor.....and we all know how many car accidents are in miami ......so lets stick to the #'s and talk safety later....

Im thinking propane kit and intercooler chiller kit
its pure madness i tell you

 

There is a GB for $200 shipped on 3Si.org

 

ha yeah that makes sense import pwr... i wasn't thinking about safety i was thinking how to make it coldest.

if you wanted to get fancy you could have 2 soleniods so that in an accident very little propane would escape, but you would probably make some extra power from gas expansion cooling. there is a bunch of things you could do actually... insulate the lines, all sorts of things.

you could leave hte soleniod at the tank but put the line regulator and needle valve near the nozzle. then the lines wouldn't just heat the propane back up before it was sprayed.

just seems like cooling the intake charge should be a priority in the design of such an object when your dealing with stuff that is so cold to begin with. cold intake charge is good stuff too, that why we spend so much money on intercoolers...

 

Extra cooling really isn't needed in the system. We tested our shop car on the Aquamist 1s Alky system. Running methanol and 91 octane we were able to get 3 more PSI over just pump before detonation. With propane we were able to push 8 more psi.

 

Both water injection and propane injection are both systems for cars pushing the limits of detination, but have different benefits. Propane is more like adding larger injectors, except much cheaper, and does not require new extensive tuning.
Water Injection, cools the intake charge, and gives your engine a good steam cleaning. Its great for eliminating detonation when keeping the same pressure and other variables the same.

Both would work great in conjunction with each other and both make very good fine tuning tools.

 

what i'm tryin to say imp power is that if you combined the benefits of both these systems, you would be able to push even more then 8psi.

 

I find it odd that no one here has considered liquid propane injection.

Not only would liquid propane cool the the intake air but the cylinders as well.

When you release liquid propane at atmospheric pressure, the liquid coming out is around -20F.

Liquid propane is also chemically stable. Go ahead.. light a paper on fire.. and spray liquid propane on it. Wow, nothing happens.

Now, once the liquid absorbs heat from the air/fire it will expand changing into a gas and thus feeding the fire.

How does the simple principle of phase change cooling work? Or in other words, refrigerators and air conditioners.

The phase is a three step process.

The compressor compresses the gas to a high PSI. This gas is discharged from the compressor into the condenser (radiator for gas). In the condenser air is used to cool the gas which at the higher pressure begins to 'Condense' or change into a liquid.

In an efficient cooling system this liquid will leave the condenser as a high pressure ambient (room temp) liquid.
From the condenser it is forced through a very small tube/metering device which creates resistance so that the compressor can pull a vacuum or a low-pressure in the evaporator. When the high pressure liquid sprays out of this metering device it is entering a low pressure zone. The lower the pressure in the evaporator the more heat the liquid will absorb before it changes back to a gas, so the colder the evaporator gets.

Why did I just explain this to you guys? 1. Propane makes a VERY good refrigerant. It mimics the properties of R22.
2. It's a simple example of how spraying liquid propane intake your air intake or right before the air metering device of your vehcile (whether F/I or carburated (which would be the choke plate)) which is at atmospheric pressure, would allow the liquid propane to exit the nozzle at around -20F. This would most certainly cool the air. My theory is that the propane will get pulled into the cylinders fast enough that there is still liquid left. As the liquid meets the heat it will expand and each molecule will absorb as much heat as it can handle before it changes to a volatile vapor.

So my theory is that hopefully there will still be liquid left to absorb quite a bit of heat in the cylinder itself.

The results could be very close to NOx. Since NOx is kept at high pressure, it to has a similar cooling affect of liquid propane. Now Liquid NOx would be far far better than liquid propane. Liquid NOx will be a LOT colder than LP. I know that LN is -180C, and propane is -40F (at 0PSI). A tank of NOx will give .. what a hundred shots? What PSI is NOx stored at in these automotive tanks?

A carburator uses a vacuum to pull the gas in... What type of vacuum are we talking about? One great enough to be measured in PSI? That would be negative PSI. Because if it is great enough and you metered the LP right into that vacuum zone of the carb the LP would come out EVEN colder.. below -40F.

Also as stated before, propane is dirt cheap. Since I have an HVAC backround I have a few tricks up my sleeve and an educated insight over these "kit" makers .

Anyone ever consider combining this propane with one of those small torch oxygen tanks .. like from home depot? A small tank wouldn't pose any threat.. it wouldn't last long and at a rough 8 bux a 14 or 16oz bottle.. kinda expensive. It would have to be injected very little for each shot of propane. But it would greatly increase your combustion rates. The propane adding the cooling affect plus octane boost and then the oxygen letting this all burn up much much faster.

 

When I was 16 me and a buddy tried to put propane into an intake line on my 1992 5.0 lx notchback mustang. All it did was bog the engine down. Maybe turbo cars like it better but it doesnt make any sense to me.

 

#1 did you use a Fuel Computer (SAFC) to pull back your normal fuel?

#2 what did you use to regualte the flow and pressure of the system?

Propane is a Fuel. Without using a means to pull out the normal fuel, just shooting propane is going to make you run super rich and bog the motor.

 

|PuNiSh3R|

As for liquid Propane. Nice write up. In thoery....It's been tested. It stalls the motor every time. Gasoline and diesels both. They don't like Liquid Propane.

 

So does this system have a method for keeping the engine from leaning out too much when you finally run out of propane? I mean it's up to the operator to make sure that it's always present... but you know how smart people are now-a-days.

Also is there some sort of on/off switch?

 

Our systems turns on with Ignition and boost presure set by the user.

Our system has an option ($75) to light a RED light on the dash when the tank becomes low (under 60psi) to let you know SLOW DOWN. This would also turn on if you forget to turn on the tank.

 

Imp, maybe you can tell me why they don't like liquid propane.

You see, since I have an '89 toyota corolla carb'd... it's easier for me to do than for you F/I folks.

Carburation is the best way to go.. IMO

Anyway, the carb on this car is under-sized to begin with so I won't be bogging the engine with to much fuel... Injecting LP into the vacuum venturi of the carb will let the propane evaporate at even colder temps.. around -65F... I can't see how it will stall. As long as the right amount is put in at the right pressure it should work fine if not great. I'm going to take a guess to say I will need a pretty beefy ignition system though. I need to get a pretty strong spark off the plugs to handle the extra air/fuel mixture.

 

Actually, I have been thinking of using Oxygen as well.

Using a small oxygen tank that you can get at home depot.. for oxy/mapp torches... It would need to inject a pretty large amount of oxygen in right over the carb choke though... I don't think one of those small tanks would last very long at all.

Btw people... Oxygen isn't flammable. Oxygen is a catalyst, which means it aids the fire burn... Burn out of control if the environment is to rich with it. Just try it though... Take a tank of oxygen and your house-hold hand torch.. Like a propane torch.. Go to home depot get one of those red tanks of oxygen.

Now, turn the torch on and take a lighter and try to light the oxygen. It will make the lighter shoot a large flame.. but once you turn the lighter off.. the flame goes out the oxygen doesn't keep burning at the tip.. like propane would. Because propane is flammable.

Flammable: Easily ignited and capable of burning rapidly

You can't ignite oxygen.