So you have Meth Injection.. Are your pistons also cracked??
Aug 27, 2010, 02:17 PM
#406
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: England
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sure i can dig up some dyno charts of cars coming in here @ 13+ AFR WOT..
All cars on the road run this AFR??
Maybe you need to be clearer on this one as i am not understanding what cars come in 13+ AFR Boosted Factory and live for long..
Evo X doesnt
GTR doesnt
STi Doesnt
Should i go on??
Lets not get into too many subjects at 1x.. Direct injection is not on the cars we are discussing..
All cars on the road run this AFR??
Maybe you need to be clearer on this one as i am not understanding what cars come in 13+ AFR Boosted Factory and live for long..
Evo X doesnt
GTR doesnt
STi Doesnt
Should i go on??
Lets not get into too many subjects at 1x.. Direct injection is not on the cars we are discussing..
No, not 13:1 but 14.7:1, lambda = 1.
All cars run on that on close loop. I did not say WOT. This is the very reason I asked you to show me a dyno chart of your car at 14:1 (mustang dyno please), held at peak boost and peak torque region for, say 10 minutes? I will then believe your claims. Don't post any other chart on other dynos - it will be meaningless.
Don't forget, the title is about "cracked piston on meth", not about E85. If you want to go off topic, do allow me too on DI engines.
Last edited by Richard L; Aug 28, 2010 at 12:30 AM.
Aug 27, 2010, 04:05 PM
#407
Account Disabled
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: California
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let me further my point even more by saying that not only is this the result of poor tuning, this is probably the result of NO tuning at all. Setup properly and tuned properly, water/methanol injection is effective and reliable. It's when someone incorrectly installs and incorrectly uses a water/methanol injection system (incorrectly using would mean not getting tuned after adding water/methanol injection) that problems like these occur.
The first engine was obviously knocking and like I said before, water/methanol injection didn't cause the top of the pistons to crack and break away and the ring to break; detonation did. I'm willing to bet that this thing had been detonating for a while. Mike said it himself... all it took was 4 pulls at 14 psi of boost on pump gas and then the ring let go. I didn't see any pics showing the pieces of broken piston so i would assume that those are already long gone which furthers my point that this thing had been detonating for a while.
Did anyone ask the customer how long the injection system had been on the car? What nozzle size? Did they install the kit after they had already had some knock issues (this is common)? What were their AFR's before and after injection? What were they injecting? Who tuned it and how did they do it? What are they using for engine management? Was there even fluid in the tank??? Was there no knock feedback? Could they hear knock and if so did they continue to drive their car while it was knocking? I see more unanswered questions than I see explanations on what really caused this to happen.
Maybe I'm going out on a limb here but what I'm seeing are a bunch of installations and no tuning... none. Not all the installs are always bad but the lack of tuning will always make a good install look bad regardless. Inexperienced water/methanol injection users want to go out and get the biggest gain possible and they do so with no regard to proper fuel or ignition tuning.
The first engine was obviously knocking and like I said before, water/methanol injection didn't cause the top of the pistons to crack and break away and the ring to break; detonation did. I'm willing to bet that this thing had been detonating for a while. Mike said it himself... all it took was 4 pulls at 14 psi of boost on pump gas and then the ring let go. I didn't see any pics showing the pieces of broken piston so i would assume that those are already long gone which furthers my point that this thing had been detonating for a while.
Did anyone ask the customer how long the injection system had been on the car? What nozzle size? Did they install the kit after they had already had some knock issues (this is common)? What were their AFR's before and after injection? What were they injecting? Who tuned it and how did they do it? What are they using for engine management? Was there even fluid in the tank??? Was there no knock feedback? Could they hear knock and if so did they continue to drive their car while it was knocking? I see more unanswered questions than I see explanations on what really caused this to happen.
Maybe I'm going out on a limb here but what I'm seeing are a bunch of installations and no tuning... none. Not all the installs are always bad but the lack of tuning will always make a good install look bad regardless. Inexperienced water/methanol injection users want to go out and get the biggest gain possible and they do so with no regard to proper fuel or ignition tuning.
Aug 27, 2010, 05:30 PM
#408
Evolving Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kinda off subject but in reference to WMI does anyone know if SCCA sanctioned events allow cars with WMI on the tracks for SOLLO II? I heard no, even if its switched off, but need to confirm since I am planning to run soon. That can be a deciding factor for me right there.
Additonally, I like the water alone aspect of this. Its just hard to find people to tune that know this stuff good enough to try it. I guess if my car was a garage queen or driven once in a blue moon, I wouldn't care. I need my car reliable. Or its worthless to me since I drive it daily.
Anyway, just curious if anyone knows...on the regs on SOLO II and WMI. Thanks..
Jeff
Additonally, I like the water alone aspect of this. Its just hard to find people to tune that know this stuff good enough to try it. I guess if my car was a garage queen or driven once in a blue moon, I wouldn't care. I need my car reliable. Or its worthless to me since I drive it daily.
Anyway, just curious if anyone knows...on the regs on SOLO II and WMI. Thanks..
Jeff
Last edited by Jeffs2006EVOIX; Aug 27, 2010 at 05:40 PM.
Aug 28, 2010, 01:09 AM
#409
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: England
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This post was not about wmi/crack piston, it is a twisted marketing exercise to discredit wmi in order to promote MNike@AWS's E85 relate products.
I would like to know the answers to all those questions you posted to Mike. I don't think it is forth coming. I have pressed him for that many times. I have also asked him to provide proof of E85 does not blown engines at 14:1 AFR at WOT, another wild claim of his.
To make his claims more creditable, he must provide more evidence to support it. As said many times before, Mike post was unprofessional to the 1st degree.
Richard
I would like to know the answers to all those questions you posted to Mike. I don't think it is forth coming. I have pressed him for that many times. I have also asked him to provide proof of E85 does not blown engines at 14:1 AFR at WOT, another wild claim of his.
To make his claims more creditable, he must provide more evidence to support it. As said many times before, Mike post was unprofessional to the 1st degree.
Richard
Let me further my point even more by saying that not only is this the result of poor tuning, this is probably the result of NO tuning at all. Setup properly and tuned properly, water/methanol injection is effective and reliable. It's when someone incorrectly installs and incorrectly uses a water/methanol injection system (incorrectly using would mean not getting tuned after adding water/methanol injection) that problems like these occur.
The first engine was obviously knocking and like I said before, water/methanol injection didn't cause the top of the pistons to crack and break away and the ring to break; detonation did. I'm willing to bet that this thing had been detonating for a while. Mike said it himself... all it took was 4 pulls at 14 psi of boost on pump gas and then the ring let go. I didn't see any pics showing the pieces of broken piston so i would assume that those are already long gone which furthers my point that this thing had been detonating for a while.
Did anyone ask the customer how long the injection system had been on the car? What nozzle size? Did they install the kit after they had already had some knock issues (this is common)? What were their AFR's before and after injection? What were they injecting? Who tuned it and how did they do it? What are they using for engine management? Was there even fluid in the tank??? Was there no knock feedback? Could they hear knock and if so did they continue to drive their car while it was knocking? I see more unanswered questions than I see explanations on what really caused this to happen.
Maybe I'm going out on a limb here but what I'm seeing are a bunch of installations and no tuning... none. Not all the installs are always bad but the lack of tuning will always make a good install look bad regardless. Inexperienced water/methanol injection users want to go out and get the biggest gain possible and they do so with no regard to proper fuel or ignition tuning.
The first engine was obviously knocking and like I said before, water/methanol injection didn't cause the top of the pistons to crack and break away and the ring to break; detonation did. I'm willing to bet that this thing had been detonating for a while. Mike said it himself... all it took was 4 pulls at 14 psi of boost on pump gas and then the ring let go. I didn't see any pics showing the pieces of broken piston so i would assume that those are already long gone which furthers my point that this thing had been detonating for a while.
Did anyone ask the customer how long the injection system had been on the car? What nozzle size? Did they install the kit after they had already had some knock issues (this is common)? What were their AFR's before and after injection? What were they injecting? Who tuned it and how did they do it? What are they using for engine management? Was there even fluid in the tank??? Was there no knock feedback? Could they hear knock and if so did they continue to drive their car while it was knocking? I see more unanswered questions than I see explanations on what really caused this to happen.
Maybe I'm going out on a limb here but what I'm seeing are a bunch of installations and no tuning... none. Not all the installs are always bad but the lack of tuning will always make a good install look bad regardless. Inexperienced water/methanol injection users want to go out and get the biggest gain possible and they do so with no regard to proper fuel or ignition tuning.
Last edited by Richard L; Aug 28, 2010 at 01:21 AM.
Aug 28, 2010, 01:26 PM
#411
This post was not about wmi/crack piston, it is a twisted marketing exercise to discredit wmi in order to promote MNike@AWS's E85 relate products.
I would like to know the answers to all those questions you posted to Mike. I don't think it is forth coming. I have pressed him for that many times. I have also asked him to provide proof of E85 does not blown engines at 14:1 AFR at WOT, another wild claim of his.
To make his claims more creditable, he must provide more evidence to support it. As said many times before, Mike post was unprofessional to the 1st degree.
Richard
I would like to know the answers to all those questions you posted to Mike. I don't think it is forth coming. I have pressed him for that many times. I have also asked him to provide proof of E85 does not blown engines at 14:1 AFR at WOT, another wild claim of his.
To make his claims more creditable, he must provide more evidence to support it. As said many times before, Mike post was unprofessional to the 1st degree.
Richard
Your reaching now with your comments.. Since your experience is MUCH LESS THAN MINE in the REAL world of building and tuning cars... Ill send in a few experts who tune for us to back up my claims that we have seen more cars with E85 run lean and survive then Meth or pump...
lastly if you want to make this a personal attack against me we can go that route.. I dont think you really want to do that.. i NEVER said AQUAMIST PRODUCTS blow motors.. i stated 100% FACTS.. I have MANY cars here that are blown.. Most of them have meth.. if you cannot handle the facts start your own thread showing why meth is so great or ill start reporting any comments directly bashing me or my ways of doing business.. I dont think you want to travel that road.. With 13k views i think my point got across to most of the members that can make common sense decisions..
Mike
Last edited by AWD Motorsports; Aug 28, 2010 at 01:28 PM.
Aug 28, 2010, 02:15 PM
#412
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: England
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mike,
At last we started to communicate properly.
An attack on a niche market we dearly loved and cherished over the years, is to me very personal. This title of yours is really inapt as well as very upsetting for many of my customers.
Did you realise that?
I can see exacty the direction where this thread is going if we continue in this manner... I will continiue to ask for more details and you will continue to post the merit of E85. This thread is going no where. I might ever request this thread to be removed.
I think we should stop here before we say think we both regret later. What you you think?
At last we started to communicate properly.
An attack on a niche market we dearly loved and cherished over the years, is to me very personal. This title of yours is really inapt as well as very upsetting for many of my customers.
Did you realise that?
I can see exacty the direction where this thread is going if we continue in this manner... I will continiue to ask for more details and you will continue to post the merit of E85. This thread is going no where. I might ever request this thread to be removed.
I think we should stop here before we say think we both regret later. What you you think?
Aug 28, 2010, 02:44 PM
#413
Mike,
At last we started to communicate properly.
An attack on a niche market we dearly loved and cherished over the years, is to me very personal. This title of yours is really inapt as well as very upsetting for many of my customers.
Did you realise that?
I can see exacty the direction where this thread is going if we continue in this manner... I will continiue to ask for more details and you will continue to post the merit of E85. This thread is going no where. I might ever request this thread to be removed.
I think we should stop here before we say think we both regret later. What you you think?
At last we started to communicate properly.
An attack on a niche market we dearly loved and cherished over the years, is to me very personal. This title of yours is really inapt as well as very upsetting for many of my customers.
Did you realise that?
I can see exacty the direction where this thread is going if we continue in this manner... I will continiue to ask for more details and you will continue to post the merit of E85. This thread is going no where. I might ever request this thread to be removed.
I think we should stop here before we say think we both regret later. What you you think?
My intention was to make the members aware of the possibilities of blown motors when you rely on METH to make the power you cant make on 93.. PERIOD..
IM DONE
Mike
Aug 28, 2010, 03:05 PM
#414
It doesn't surprise me. Although there are cars out there running meth with no issues, its a risky thing.
I never agreed with a single nozzle in a UICP. Injectors are right at the intake manifold. I wonder if there were a second set of individual nozzles near where the gas injectors supplied 93 - that sprayed meth .... would this occur?
I am with you Mike, I prefer E85, just some of us aren't as lucky to have it in abundance.
I never agreed with a single nozzle in a UICP. Injectors are right at the intake manifold. I wonder if there were a second set of individual nozzles near where the gas injectors supplied 93 - that sprayed meth .... would this occur?
I am with you Mike, I prefer E85, just some of us aren't as lucky to have it in abundance.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
