Build a motor or buy a built motor. 20, 2.3, 2.4. Engine builders please read
Jul 13, 2010, 10:49 PM
#17
Keep in mind I have aftermarket cams and upgraded valve train already. Built drivetrain. I have a BBK but I will sell it and get an FP black to offset the cost.
If I'm just doing drop in pistons and porting/polishing the head and doing the work then I don't see how that will cost a lot. If I got a built block I still don't see how it will cost that much as well. If I was having a shop do it then I completely see it costing that much.
If I'm just doing drop in pistons and porting/polishing the head and doing the work then I don't see how that will cost a lot. If I got a built block I still don't see how it will cost that much as well. If I was having a shop do it then I completely see it costing that much.
Jul 14, 2010, 04:35 AM
#19
why would you half-*** a build? i've seen to many locals attempt a "drop-in" build... all with the same result, burning oil like a mad man! those rings will never seal right. And these were all done by an Evom Vendor which will remain nameless.
Only way it could work, is if the block has very low mileage. And even then i wouldn't trust it.
Get it done right. Take the block to a machine shop!
Only way it could work, is if the block has very low mileage. And even then i wouldn't trust it.
Get it done right. Take the block to a machine shop!
Last edited by Viciouslord; Jul 14, 2010 at 04:39 AM.
Jul 14, 2010, 04:45 AM
#20
why would you half-*** a build? i've seen to many locals attempt a "drop-in" build... all with the same result, burning oil like a mad man! those rings will never seal right. And these were all done by an Evom Vendor which will remain nameless.
Only way it could work, is if the block has very low mileage. And even then i wouldn't trust it.
Get it done right. Take the block to a machine shop!
Only way it could work, is if the block has very low mileage. And even then i wouldn't trust it.
Get it done right. Take the block to a machine shop!
Jul 14, 2010, 05:01 AM
#21
I personally can't list all the "cons" of a drop-in build because I've never done a build like this on my own car. Some of the locals are close friends and they all complained about the same thing, Oil Consumption.
I would assume that compression would also be effected if piston rings aren't sealing.
I am not a professional when it comes to these things. And I could careless what the "Big Dawg" vendors have to say about "drop-in" builds. This is my personal opinion.
Last edited by Viciouslord; Jul 14, 2010 at 05:17 AM.
Jul 14, 2010, 06:34 AM
#22
Call me stupid, but I don't see the big difference between a "drop-in" build and a "built block".
Buschur racing lists their built block as having the following:
Bearings (Rod, Main and Thrust)
Balanced, turned & polished Crank shaft
Buschur Racing Balance Shaft Eliminator kit
ARP Fasteners *does not include head studs)
BR Spec Crower Connecting Rods
BR Spec JE Tough Skirt Coated Forged Pistons
Buschur sells all of these parts separately. I knowlegeable Evo owner could easily purchase the parts and install them himself... probably with a little money spent on cleaning up the block, and balancing out the motor (after install) if it needed it.
Or am I missing something?
Buschur racing lists their built block as having the following:
Bearings (Rod, Main and Thrust)
Balanced, turned & polished Crank shaft
Buschur Racing Balance Shaft Eliminator kit
ARP Fasteners *does not include head studs)
BR Spec Crower Connecting Rods
BR Spec JE Tough Skirt Coated Forged Pistons
Buschur sells all of these parts separately. I knowlegeable Evo owner could easily purchase the parts and install them himself... probably with a little money spent on cleaning up the block, and balancing out the motor (after install) if it needed it.
Or am I missing something?
Jul 14, 2010, 07:02 AM
#23
Call me stupid, but I don't see the big difference between a "drop-in" build and a "built block".
Buschur racing lists their built block as having the following:
Bearings (Rod, Main and Thrust)
Balanced, turned & polished Crank shaft
Buschur Racing Balance Shaft Eliminator kit
ARP Fasteners *does not include head studs)
BR Spec Crower Connecting Rods
BR Spec JE Tough Skirt Coated Forged Pistons
Buschur sells all of these parts separately. I knowlegeable Evo owner could easily purchase the parts and install them himself... probably with a little money spent on cleaning up the block, and balancing out the motor (after install) if it needed it.
Or am I missing something?
Buschur racing lists their built block as having the following:
Bearings (Rod, Main and Thrust)
Balanced, turned & polished Crank shaft
Buschur Racing Balance Shaft Eliminator kit
ARP Fasteners *does not include head studs)
BR Spec Crower Connecting Rods
BR Spec JE Tough Skirt Coated Forged Pistons
Buschur sells all of these parts separately. I knowlegeable Evo owner could easily purchase the parts and install them himself... probably with a little money spent on cleaning up the block, and balancing out the motor (after install) if it needed it.
Or am I missing something?
The difference is in how the motor is assembled. With a "drop-in" build the block is never removed out of the engine bay. In a nutshell, you would need to remove the head and drop the oil pan.
With a traditional build, you would remove the entire motor. Then you would disassemble the long block and send the head and block to the machine shop, so they can work there magic.
Jul 14, 2010, 07:30 AM
#24
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Raleigh, Transplanted from Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,313
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Ok let me be clear. When I say drop in pistons and rods I mean I will still take the block to a machine shop and have them clean the block up and assemble it to make sure its built properly. I wasn't proposing just dropping it in. With what my motor has been through I'd want my cylinder walls checked to ensure that there is no clearance issues.
New Rod/Main bolts that can take high RPM abuse. I wasn't going to half *** it. I guess my point is if I'm going to buy a built block I was wondering out loud if its worth it considering I have access to a knowledgeable Evo owner willing to help and a machine shop that has done these types of jobs before.
I'm adding a 4th option: Buying a built block and having the head ported and polished. Of course once you start going that route then we can easily end back up at a fully built motor.
New Rod/Main bolts that can take high RPM abuse. I wasn't going to half *** it. I guess my point is if I'm going to buy a built block I was wondering out loud if its worth it considering I have access to a knowledgeable Evo owner willing to help and a machine shop that has done these types of jobs before.
I'm adding a 4th option: Buying a built block and having the head ported and polished. Of course once you start going that route then we can easily end back up at a fully built motor.
Jul 14, 2010, 07:43 AM
#25
Evolving Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WOW you paid alot lol thats why you have to find them deals man. lol mine was way under that lol deal finder right here. are you saying
built head
built 2.4
waterpump adaptor
timing belt
adjustible camgears
both pullies
fluidampr
oilpump
oilpan
Headgasket
Headstuds
fp black
install kit
manifold
o2 housing
general cost 8k for those items?
built head
built 2.4
waterpump adaptor
timing belt
adjustible camgears
both pullies
fluidampr
oilpump
oilpan
Headgasket
Headstuds
fp black
install kit
manifold
o2 housing
general cost 8k for those items?
Jul 14, 2010, 07:56 AM
#26
Ok let me be clear. When I say drop in pistons and rods I mean I will still take the block to a machine shop and have them clean the block up and assemble it to make sure its built properly. I wasn't proposing just dropping it in. With what my motor has been through I'd want my cylinder walls checked to ensure that there is no clearance issues.
New Rod/Main bolts that can take high RPM abuse. I wasn't going to half *** it. I guess my point is if I'm going to buy a built block I was wondering out loud if its worth it considering I have access to a knowledgeable Evo owner willing to help and a machine shop that has done these types of jobs before.
I'm adding a 4th option: Buying a built block and having the head ported and polished. Of course once you start going that route then we can easily end back up at a fully built motor.
New Rod/Main bolts that can take high RPM abuse. I wasn't going to half *** it. I guess my point is if I'm going to buy a built block I was wondering out loud if its worth it considering I have access to a knowledgeable Evo owner willing to help and a machine shop that has done these types of jobs before.
I'm adding a 4th option: Buying a built block and having the head ported and polished. Of course once you start going that route then we can easily end back up at a fully built motor.
But when you say I wanna build a motor or should I buy a "built motor". Both motors are considered "built" or "fully built"... There is no difference other then parts used. Meaning some people and/or companies may use different parts.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Jul 14, 2010, 08:09 AM
#27
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Raleigh, Transplanted from Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,313
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Ok its my fault. I guess I should've made the statement fully built (aka buy a block already built by one of the reputable vendors on here) or build it myself with stronger rods/pistons and main/rod bolts).
Buy a BR/SBR/MAP/ETC built short/long block vs buying rods and pistons myself and taking the short/long block to a machine shop and having it (block) cleaned, inspected and assembled. I guess I view drop in pistons and rods as just that ( I just assumed everyone does it the "right" way.
Buy a BR/SBR/MAP/ETC built short/long block vs buying rods and pistons myself and taking the short/long block to a machine shop and having it (block) cleaned, inspected and assembled. I guess I view drop in pistons and rods as just that ( I just assumed everyone does it the "right" way.
Last edited by SmurfZilla; Jul 14, 2010 at 08:12 AM.
Jul 14, 2010, 08:15 AM
#28
Yeah I know I'm flip flopping back and forth. Thing is I don't really drag race, auto-x or track my car. I've done all three (well i was going to take it to the track to see what it would do this summer before this happened). I like mountain runs, the occasional street light beat down and hwy run. I'm not partial to anything. I like driving my car and feeling the power. I'm not too worried about loss of spool by 500-1000rpms.....anything over that I'd start to care.
The person willing to help is pretty knowledgable and after talking with him I added the 3rd option. He bought a used AMS built 2.3 (Funny fact it was the original owner of my cars motor) and he found some issues with it so he yanked the motor out himself disassembled the block. Had a local machine shop he trusts to do good work re-assemble and he put the motor back together and put it back in the car. he's having some issues with a defective WGA on his turbo but the car has been running for a while with no issues. Plus with some of the issues i have seen some reputable shops have (mistakes are mistakes), its not like I'm gurantee'd a problem free engine build. What 3rd option represents to me is a very mild build really.
Money is a determining factor. Its not about having it.....its about spending it. I don't know that I want to spend 6-8k and then still have to possibly put more money into it. I'm not trying to go big. I know that any of the methods I highlighted will get me over 500 which is what I wanted anyways so I'm not that concerned on the numbers.
I've got 2 kids that are growing fast and a wife and school so I'm the only source of income. I don't know that I can justify that kind of money on a motor alone (and still have to upgrade some other stuff like the turbo, cam's etc). If this never happened I wouldn't even be thinking building the motor. But now that I'm kinda forced to open the motor I figured it'll cost me almost the same to make it OEM built so why not put some stronger internals in there and get a little better flow.
Clutch, Transmission and TCase can handle more then the last option will put out power wise. I'll just have to upgrade my turbo (BBK Full----> FP Black) my cams (if necessary Kelford 272's----->280's) and fuel system (Single Walbro and PTE 1200's--------->Double pumper 2nd Walbro and at least 1650's).
DECISIONS DECISIONS
The person willing to help is pretty knowledgable and after talking with him I added the 3rd option. He bought a used AMS built 2.3 (Funny fact it was the original owner of my cars motor) and he found some issues with it so he yanked the motor out himself disassembled the block. Had a local machine shop he trusts to do good work re-assemble and he put the motor back together and put it back in the car. he's having some issues with a defective WGA on his turbo but the car has been running for a while with no issues. Plus with some of the issues i have seen some reputable shops have (mistakes are mistakes), its not like I'm gurantee'd a problem free engine build. What 3rd option represents to me is a very mild build really.
Money is a determining factor. Its not about having it.....its about spending it. I don't know that I want to spend 6-8k and then still have to possibly put more money into it. I'm not trying to go big. I know that any of the methods I highlighted will get me over 500 which is what I wanted anyways so I'm not that concerned on the numbers.
I've got 2 kids that are growing fast and a wife and school so I'm the only source of income. I don't know that I can justify that kind of money on a motor alone (and still have to upgrade some other stuff like the turbo, cam's etc). If this never happened I wouldn't even be thinking building the motor. But now that I'm kinda forced to open the motor I figured it'll cost me almost the same to make it OEM built so why not put some stronger internals in there and get a little better flow.
Clutch, Transmission and TCase can handle more then the last option will put out power wise. I'll just have to upgrade my turbo (BBK Full----> FP Black) my cams (if necessary Kelford 272's----->280's) and fuel system (Single Walbro and PTE 1200's--------->Double pumper 2nd Walbro and at least 1650's).
DECISIONS DECISIONS
Given your main priorities, I would rebuild this motor as a 2.0 @ 10:1 CR and keep everything you have. Just make sure you clay the pistons (or whatever needs to be done) to make sure you can run whatever cam you want.
That's my $0.02.
Going bigger is awesome, and I would also suggest it, but knowing you have a wife and 2 kids and you're the money maker, unless you're pooping cash, I would KISS.
-Jalal
Jul 14, 2010, 08:52 AM
#29
Newbie
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: n/e ohio
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How are you on finances and such being the only income? I can't imagine it being easy.
Given your main priorities, I would rebuild this motor as a 2.0 @ 10:1 CR and keep everything you have. Just make sure you clay the pistons (or whatever needs to be done) to make sure you can run whatever cam you want.
That's my $0.02.
Going bigger is awesome, and I would also suggest it, but knowing you have a wife and 2 kids and you're the money maker, unless you're pooping cash, I would KISS.
-Jalal
Given your main priorities, I would rebuild this motor as a 2.0 @ 10:1 CR and keep everything you have. Just make sure you clay the pistons (or whatever needs to be done) to make sure you can run whatever cam you want.
That's my $0.02.
Going bigger is awesome, and I would also suggest it, but knowing you have a wife and 2 kids and you're the money maker, unless you're pooping cash, I would KISS.
-Jalal
Jul 14, 2010, 08:52 AM
#30
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Raleigh, Transplanted from Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,313
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Thanks.
Finances wise its tough at times. Savings are basically non-existent right now and I'm really hating living paycheck to paycheck (Wife is full time in school and still looking for part time work). So whatever I do I may just wait until this time next year. Put some money in the bank and just relax.
I was going to start this in August but I think I may just get a used beater to drive around and stop driving my car everyday.
Finances wise its tough at times. Savings are basically non-existent right now and I'm really hating living paycheck to paycheck (Wife is full time in school and still looking for part time work). So whatever I do I may just wait until this time next year. Put some money in the bank and just relax.
I was going to start this in August but I think I may just get a used beater to drive around and stop driving my car everyday.