Build a motor or buy a built motor. 20, 2.3, 2.4. Engine builders please read
Jul 13, 2010, 07:12 AM
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Build a motor or buy a built motor. 20, 2.3, 2.4. Engine builders please read
So i posted up a while ago that i farked my motor. Its still drivable but i have low compression on #1 cylinder but the car still rins strong. I've been going over my options.
Option 1: With the help of some forum members i have been considering going with a built 2.4 block. I've contacted some of the usual suspects and gotten pricing did the logistics on pricing. The motor itself will cost me about 6500 ready to be dropped in.
Option 2: Going with a local shop i can build my motor stay 2.0 but after everything is said and done I'll have spent about 5500. I may get about 1200 off the labor on a sponsorship type deal. I'll have to go in to speak about the particulars but I'm thinking that I end up spending at least 4500 before hidden costs and **** comes up.
Option3: With the help of a local member who put his 2.3 motor together and has a local machine shop he trusts buy some rods and pistons, port and polish the head, buy some bigger cams and put together ourselves. This is obviously the cheaper option.
Now the goal with the car is to have it as reliable as possible. I currently have a BBK Full. I was going to go BBK-B but since I'm going to be in the very least mildly building the motor I'm going to sell my BBK full and get an FP Black. I never intended to build the motor and I never really wanted to go 2.3/2.4.
That being said if I got the building my own 2.0 route then i can buy parts slowly as I go (staggering the cost and keeping the wife happy
). i had a question about rods and pistons. I'd want be able to spin my motor high (since i'd be staying 2.0). I'd be going with Kelford 280's (selling my current 272 setup unless there is no need). i'm thinking 9000-9500 if that is possible.
For rods and pistons i was thinking for the high RPM abuse and boost levels/power I would need Manley I-Beams/Turbo tuff (or can i get away with Manley/Eagle H-Beams). Pistons are my biggest question. Should i go with Wiseco HD's or can regular JE/Wiseco/CP pistons do the job. For the RPM level/Turbo I'd be running should i stay stock compression, go higher or lower.......I'm not an engine builder so an opinions, educated or otherwise will be appreciated.
Option 1: With the help of some forum members i have been considering going with a built 2.4 block. I've contacted some of the usual suspects and gotten pricing did the logistics on pricing. The motor itself will cost me about 6500 ready to be dropped in.
Option 2: Going with a local shop i can build my motor stay 2.0 but after everything is said and done I'll have spent about 5500. I may get about 1200 off the labor on a sponsorship type deal. I'll have to go in to speak about the particulars but I'm thinking that I end up spending at least 4500 before hidden costs and **** comes up.
Option3: With the help of a local member who put his 2.3 motor together and has a local machine shop he trusts buy some rods and pistons, port and polish the head, buy some bigger cams and put together ourselves. This is obviously the cheaper option.
Now the goal with the car is to have it as reliable as possible. I currently have a BBK Full. I was going to go BBK-B but since I'm going to be in the very least mildly building the motor I'm going to sell my BBK full and get an FP Black. I never intended to build the motor and I never really wanted to go 2.3/2.4.
That being said if I got the building my own 2.0 route then i can buy parts slowly as I go (staggering the cost and keeping the wife happy
). i had a question about rods and pistons. I'd want be able to spin my motor high (since i'd be staying 2.0). I'd be going with Kelford 280's (selling my current 272 setup unless there is no need). i'm thinking 9000-9500 if that is possible. For rods and pistons i was thinking for the high RPM abuse and boost levels/power I would need Manley I-Beams/Turbo tuff (or can i get away with Manley/Eagle H-Beams). Pistons are my biggest question. Should i go with Wiseco HD's or can regular JE/Wiseco/CP pistons do the job. For the RPM level/Turbo I'd be running should i stay stock compression, go higher or lower.......I'm not an engine builder so an opinions, educated or otherwise will be appreciated.
Jul 13, 2010, 07:46 AM
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well if money is no matter id get the 2.6 for maximum displacement, which would be good for fast spool, but probably not a prime drag race car
Unless you want a top end car then id build a 2.0, probably would have a shop do it unless you or your friends are extremely knowlegeable
Unless you want a top end car then id build a 2.0, probably would have a shop do it unless you or your friends are extremely knowlegeable
Jul 13, 2010, 07:57 AM
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If u trust someone to help u go that root. I got the built 2.0 from buschur and got the head work at a local machine shop. It's nice to do it and learn it so u can be comfortable the next time. Whatever u want. Is best.
Jul 13, 2010, 08:06 AM
#4
the new fad is 10:1 compression if you want power on e85. i would say get pistons with higher compression then stock 9:1 something like that. Turbo tuff rods will get the job done. LOL if your dragging all the time then 2.0 or 2.1 for sure if your wanting spool autox some roading coursing and street fun any everything else i urge you to consider 2.3 or 2.4 as we have been talking about. if you have to save up then just save my dude. the stroker is well worth the wait lol. i held on to parts for 1 year buying and scheming i did not drive my car for like 8 months comes with the territory but if thats got to happen then do what you have to do.
Jul 13, 2010, 08:34 AM
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Yeah I know I'm flip flopping back and forth. Thing is I don't really drag race, auto-x or track my car. I've done all three (well i was going to take it to the track to see what it would do this summer before this happened). I like mountain runs, the occasional street light beat down and hwy run. I'm not partial to anything. I like driving my car and feeling the power. I'm not too worried about loss of spool by 500-1000rpms.....anything over that I'd start to care.
The person willing to help is pretty knowledgable and after talking with him I added the 3rd option. He bought a used AMS built 2.3 (Funny fact it was the original owner of my cars motor) and he found some issues with it so he yanked the motor out himself disassembled the block. Had a local machine shop he trusts to do good work re-assemble and he put the motor back together and put it back in the car. he's having some issues with a defective WGA on his turbo but the car has been running for a while with no issues. Plus with some of the issues i have seen some reputable shops have (mistakes are mistakes), its not like I'm gurantee'd a problem free engine build. What 3rd option represents to me is a very mild build really.
Money is a determining factor. Its not about having it.....its about spending it. I don't know that I want to spend 6-8k and then still have to possibly put more money into it. I'm not trying to go big. I know that any of the methods I highlighted will get me over 500 which is what I wanted anyways so I'm not that concerned on the numbers.
I've got 2 kids that are growing fast and a wife and school so I'm the only source of income. I don't know that I can justify that kind of money on a motor alone (and still have to upgrade some other stuff like the turbo, cam's etc). If this never happened I wouldn't even be thinking building the motor. But now that I'm kinda forced to open the motor I figured it'll cost me almost the same to make it OEM built so why not put some stronger internals in there and get a little better flow.
Clutch, Transmission and TCase can handle more then the last option will put out power wise. I'll just have to upgrade my turbo (BBK Full----> FP Black) my cams (if necessary Kelford 272's----->280's) and fuel system (Single Walbro and PTE 1200's--------->Double pumper 2nd Walbro and at least 1650's).
DECISIONS DECISIONS
The person willing to help is pretty knowledgable and after talking with him I added the 3rd option. He bought a used AMS built 2.3 (Funny fact it was the original owner of my cars motor) and he found some issues with it so he yanked the motor out himself disassembled the block. Had a local machine shop he trusts to do good work re-assemble and he put the motor back together and put it back in the car. he's having some issues with a defective WGA on his turbo but the car has been running for a while with no issues. Plus with some of the issues i have seen some reputable shops have (mistakes are mistakes), its not like I'm gurantee'd a problem free engine build. What 3rd option represents to me is a very mild build really.
Money is a determining factor. Its not about having it.....its about spending it. I don't know that I want to spend 6-8k and then still have to possibly put more money into it. I'm not trying to go big. I know that any of the methods I highlighted will get me over 500 which is what I wanted anyways so I'm not that concerned on the numbers.
I've got 2 kids that are growing fast and a wife and school so I'm the only source of income. I don't know that I can justify that kind of money on a motor alone (and still have to upgrade some other stuff like the turbo, cam's etc). If this never happened I wouldn't even be thinking building the motor. But now that I'm kinda forced to open the motor I figured it'll cost me almost the same to make it OEM built so why not put some stronger internals in there and get a little better flow.
Clutch, Transmission and TCase can handle more then the last option will put out power wise. I'll just have to upgrade my turbo (BBK Full----> FP Black) my cams (if necessary Kelford 272's----->280's) and fuel system (Single Walbro and PTE 1200's--------->Double pumper 2nd Walbro and at least 1650's).
DECISIONS DECISIONS
Last edited by SmurfZilla; Jul 13, 2010 at 08:38 AM.
Jul 13, 2010, 08:37 AM
#7
wiesco hd's and turbo tuff rods +1 
no need to cheap out on a set of eagles if you are in there anyways. Do it right the first time, I went with the 9:1 hd's and a set of turbo tuffs on mine, just wainting on the machine shop now...I would have done it myself but it is summer vacation for my two little girls and the car is already torn down with pieces all over the place 
no need to cheap out on a set of eagles if you are in there anyways. Do it right the first time, I went with the 9:1 hd's and a set of turbo tuffs on mine, just wainting on the machine shop now...I would have done it myself but it is summer vacation for my two little girls and the car is already torn down with pieces all over the place
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Jul 13, 2010, 08:50 AM
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I didn't know if Wiseco HD's was overkill. I've been searching for threads on 10:1 compression and theory behind it. When I was into Honda's I always thought high compression high boost would be a good combo. Surprised its making its way into the Evo world.
Jul 13, 2010, 08:59 AM
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I'm at ~10.1/2 :1 and would love to go even higher. Unless you get to drive an Evo running higher compression, its one of those things that you just have to trust us with higher compression to just do it and dont look back. You wont be disappointed at all.
Jul 13, 2010, 02:19 PM
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I am completing my 2.4 build. I bought it built for $3200 with Manley I beams and Manley Pistons, no core needed. From my calculations, for a built engine with EVERYTHING considered (because I spent 16 months researching) you will spend a minimum of $7000. Unless you are getting some sort of "hook-up," but the rest who dont have that can expect that. This includes upgrades that are needed to support high power. This does NOT consider any type of competition goal. Only the modifications needed to do a 2.4 build with a fp black.
My total cost is around $8000 which is everything except the mods I had which were basic bolt ons and other like mbc, fuel pump, cams and ported parts.
My total cost is around $8000 which is everything except the mods I had which were basic bolt ons and other like mbc, fuel pump, cams and ported parts.
Jul 13, 2010, 03:29 PM
#14
I am completing my 2.4 build. I bought it built for $3200 with Manley I beams and Manley Pistons, no core needed. From my calculations, for a built engine with EVERYTHING considered (because I spent 16 months researching) you will spend a minimum of $7000. Unless you are getting some sort of "hook-up," but the rest who dont have that can expect that. This includes upgrades that are needed to support high power. This does NOT consider any type of competition goal. Only the modifications needed to do a 2.4 build with a fp black.
My total cost is around $8000 which is everything except the mods I had which were basic bolt ons and other like mbc, fuel pump, cams and ported parts.
My total cost is around $8000 which is everything except the mods I had which were basic bolt ons and other like mbc, fuel pump, cams and ported parts.
built head
built 2.4
waterpump adaptor
timing belt
adjustible camgears
both pullies
fluidampr
oilpump
oilpan
Headgasket
Headstuds
fp black
install kit
manifold
o2 housing
general cost 8k for those items?
Jul 13, 2010, 03:39 PM
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Keep in mind I have aftermarket cams and upgraded valve train already. Built drivetrain. I have a BBK but I will sell it and get an FP black to offset the cost.
If I'm just doing drop in pistons and porting/polishing the head and doing the work then I don't see how that will cost a lot. If I got a built block I still don't see how it will cost that much as well. If I was having a shop do it then I completely see it costing that much.
If I'm just doing drop in pistons and porting/polishing the head and doing the work then I don't see how that will cost a lot. If I got a built block I still don't see how it will cost that much as well. If I was having a shop do it then I completely see it costing that much.