Engine build tips
Jul 28, 2010, 09:15 PM
#1
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Engine build tips
I'm looking for some input on an Evo IV engine build. I'm starting my Mirage to evo VI conversion, and was looking an Evo V+ block to start my build, but came across a IV at a price that I couldn't turn down!
I am going to add oil chamfers to the thrust bearings to help prevent thrust wear and will an eye out for crank walk.
Any way, I want good streetability, not looking for crazy horsepower numbers but I want a fun car to drive. It will be street driven 99% of the time, but I'm thinking about trying my hand at some autocross...
My thoughts so far:
Bottom end
Manley Forged crank
Manley H-beams
JE Forged Pistons
Chamfered main bearing
OEM bearings
High volume oil pump
Head
ARP head studs
Mild cam (I need suggestions, as I am pretty new to the evo game!)
Cosworth head gasket
560cc injectors
Turbo
Tommi Makinen turbo
Tommi Makinen intercooler
I haven't decided what exhaust to use, but I was considering the Works Exhale.
So, guys- any input appreciated! Also, I have access to a full machine shop for free, so almost nothing is out of the question
Thanks!
I am going to add oil chamfers to the thrust bearings to help prevent thrust wear and will an eye out for crank walk.
Any way, I want good streetability, not looking for crazy horsepower numbers but I want a fun car to drive. It will be street driven 99% of the time, but I'm thinking about trying my hand at some autocross...
My thoughts so far:
Bottom end
Manley Forged crank
Manley H-beams
JE Forged Pistons
Chamfered main bearing
OEM bearings
High volume oil pump
Head
ARP head studs
Mild cam (I need suggestions, as I am pretty new to the evo game!)
Cosworth head gasket
560cc injectors
Turbo
Tommi Makinen turbo
Tommi Makinen intercooler
I haven't decided what exhaust to use, but I was considering the Works Exhale.
So, guys- any input appreciated! Also, I have access to a full machine shop for free, so almost nothing is out of the question
Thanks!
Last edited by KX250Fmotoracer; Jul 28, 2010 at 09:21 PM.
Jul 29, 2010, 10:00 AM
#2
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Wow, no one?
So does anyone know aprox what HP a stock evo 8 crank is good for? Is it a waste going to a forged crank?
How about stroker kits? I saw that AMS has a 2.3 kit, full forged?
So does anyone know aprox what HP a stock evo 8 crank is good for? Is it a waste going to a forged crank?
How about stroker kits? I saw that AMS has a 2.3 kit, full forged?
Jul 29, 2010, 10:26 AM
#3
Most stroker kits use a stock 2.4L crank so its cast.
Plan on more fuel system if you want to make more than 320whp or so. 560cc injectors are basically just stock ones.
What do you consider is mild? You want it to idle like stock or just have good power? I suppose since your not building a head with springs or porting a cam which can work with the stock springs is best for you. HKS 272, S1, or equivalent.
I wouldn't bother with a TME turbo on my car. You wont get too much better response in the low end with it compared to stock turbos and even with pure autox you'll probably just want more power.
What is a TME intercooler though? I have never seen one personally. I can't imagine its any different than what came stock on the evo.
Jul 29, 2010, 05:37 PM
#4
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Seen stock mitsu cranks take 1000whp or more so it should be fine for you.
Most stroker kits use a stock 2.4L crank so its cast. Yeah, I know this, just weighing my options... I need to upgrade my crank any way, but I'm not sure if I should stroke it or not!
Plan on more fuel system if you want to make more than 320whp or so. 560cc injectors are basically just stock ones.
Oh, alright. I was aware that the 560cc was stock size for Evo V and up, but I thought people were making more power than that with them. Would 680's be good enough?
What do you consider is mild? You want it to idle like stock or just have good power? I suppose since your not building a head with springs or porting a cam which can work with the stock springs is best for you. HKS 272, S1, or equivalent.
I was told that theres not much power to be had from porting the head on a forced induction engine? I would replace springs/retainers when I put cams in.
Pretty much the engine I want to build is one that will be an engine with a good useable power band, I dont mind a lumpy or slightly rough idle. I'm not looking to build a race engine.
I wouldn't bother with a TME turbo on my car. You wont get too much better response in the low end with it compared to stock turbos and even with pure autox you'll probably just want more power.
What is a TME intercooler though? I have never seen one personally. I can't imagine its any different than what came stock on the evo.
Well I'm building a TME clone, so I want it to look stock. I already bought the tme turbo btw. And the TME intercooler is larger than the stock intercooler (at least for VI's, not sure about VIII's)
Most stroker kits use a stock 2.4L crank so its cast. Yeah, I know this, just weighing my options... I need to upgrade my crank any way, but I'm not sure if I should stroke it or not!
Plan on more fuel system if you want to make more than 320whp or so. 560cc injectors are basically just stock ones.
Oh, alright. I was aware that the 560cc was stock size for Evo V and up, but I thought people were making more power than that with them. Would 680's be good enough?
What do you consider is mild? You want it to idle like stock or just have good power? I suppose since your not building a head with springs or porting a cam which can work with the stock springs is best for you. HKS 272, S1, or equivalent.
I was told that theres not much power to be had from porting the head on a forced induction engine? I would replace springs/retainers when I put cams in.
Pretty much the engine I want to build is one that will be an engine with a good useable power band, I dont mind a lumpy or slightly rough idle. I'm not looking to build a race engine.
I wouldn't bother with a TME turbo on my car. You wont get too much better response in the low end with it compared to stock turbos and even with pure autox you'll probably just want more power.
What is a TME intercooler though? I have never seen one personally. I can't imagine its any different than what came stock on the evo.
Well I'm building a TME clone, so I want it to look stock. I already bought the tme turbo btw. And the TME intercooler is larger than the stock intercooler (at least for VI's, not sure about VIII's)
Jul 29, 2010, 08:53 PM
#5
Good Luck on the build 
Here is one car from NZ that did an evo5 shaped mirage
http://www.mmc.org.nz/forum/viewtopi...evo+and+mirage
And here is my build/thread for my '96 mirage
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ed-mirage.html
Enjoy!
Here is one car from NZ that did an evo5 shaped mirage
http://www.mmc.org.nz/forum/viewtopi...evo+and+mirage
And here is my build/thread for my '96 mirage
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ed-mirage.html
Enjoy!
Jul 29, 2010, 08:57 PM
#6
The off boost response alone is worth it for stroking. Your tubro is going to run out of steam soon with something as small as a TME. The stroked motor will also handle bigger cam durations without loping so thats another win for you.
I would go higher than 680's you don't get too far into boost before they choke out as well. 880's are pretty much the minimum I'd put on any car. Super easy to tune for idle and hold good power with gas not ethanol up to around 500 or so. I do this because i hate buying things twice.
Porting the head allows better flow and cooler intake temps from better turbo efficiency, pretty nice for pump gas setups. The cost may not be worth your time with such a mild setup though go with stock spring cams like i mentioned before. With a stroked motor I'd be more interested in a S2 style cam but if you want perfectly stock idle with added power the S1 sized cams will be your best choice.
I would hazard a guess the TME intercooler is just the same as the stock evo 8 one in flow capacity. I remember an older thread where the evo 8 and tme turbo's were compared and while the cfm for both were pretty much identical the tme essentially had better mid range response.
I've also been told you don't want to over spin these materials thanks to the hazard of them coming apart.
I would go higher than 680's you don't get too far into boost before they choke out as well. 880's are pretty much the minimum I'd put on any car. Super easy to tune for idle and hold good power with gas not ethanol up to around 500 or so. I do this because i hate buying things twice.
Porting the head allows better flow and cooler intake temps from better turbo efficiency, pretty nice for pump gas setups. The cost may not be worth your time with such a mild setup though go with stock spring cams like i mentioned before. With a stroked motor I'd be more interested in a S2 style cam but if you want perfectly stock idle with added power the S1 sized cams will be your best choice.
I would hazard a guess the TME intercooler is just the same as the stock evo 8 one in flow capacity. I remember an older thread where the evo 8 and tme turbo's were compared and while the cfm for both were pretty much identical the tme essentially had better mid range response.
I've also been told you don't want to over spin these materials thanks to the hazard of them coming apart.
Jul 31, 2010, 09:36 AM
#7
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
The off boost response alone is worth it for stroking. Your tubro is going to run out of steam soon with something as small as a TME. The stroked motor will also handle bigger cam durations without loping so thats another win for you.
Hmm, alright. Would the Kelford 272's+springs be a good cam for a 2.3 build? Since I already have the TME, I'll run it when I get the motor going, and if its no good, its not a big deal to switch
I would go higher than 680's you don't get too far into boost before they choke out as well. 880's are pretty much the minimum I'd put on any car. Super easy to tune for idle and hold good power with gas not ethanol up to around 500 or so. I do this because i hate buying things twice.
Yeah, I just found some calculators for injectors, and 680's aren't even good for 350 hp. I didn't want to go too big w/ injector size and flood the engine at lower rpm's, but I think I was being too conservative. Are the FIC 880's a good injector?
Porting the head allows better flow and cooler intake temps from better turbo efficiency, pretty nice for pump gas setups. The cost may not be worth your time with such a mild setup though go with stock spring cams like i mentioned before. With a stroked motor I'd be more interested in a S2 style cam but if you want perfectly stock idle with added power the S1 sized cams will be your best choice.
I think I'm going to pass on having the head sent out to be ported, but I am g oing to match the ports to the manifolds/ gaskets on my own. Are the +1mm valves a waste of time on a stock turbo, because I have the tools to do that in my own?
I would hazard a guess the TME intercooler is just the same as the stock evo 8 one in flow capacity. I remember an older thread where the evo 8 and tme turbo's were compared and while the cfm for both were pretty much identical the tme essentially had better mid range response.
Well I got it cheap enough... It looks brand new, got it for 200 bucks!
I've also been told you don't want to over spin these materials thanks to the hazard of them coming apart.
Are you talking about the TiAl impeller? Or the stroker engine?
Hmm, alright. Would the Kelford 272's+springs be a good cam for a 2.3 build? Since I already have the TME, I'll run it when I get the motor going, and if its no good, its not a big deal to switch
I would go higher than 680's you don't get too far into boost before they choke out as well. 880's are pretty much the minimum I'd put on any car. Super easy to tune for idle and hold good power with gas not ethanol up to around 500 or so. I do this because i hate buying things twice.
Yeah, I just found some calculators for injectors, and 680's aren't even good for 350 hp. I didn't want to go too big w/ injector size and flood the engine at lower rpm's, but I think I was being too conservative. Are the FIC 880's a good injector?
Porting the head allows better flow and cooler intake temps from better turbo efficiency, pretty nice for pump gas setups. The cost may not be worth your time with such a mild setup though go with stock spring cams like i mentioned before. With a stroked motor I'd be more interested in a S2 style cam but if you want perfectly stock idle with added power the S1 sized cams will be your best choice.
I think I'm going to pass on having the head sent out to be ported, but I am g oing to match the ports to the manifolds/ gaskets on my own. Are the +1mm valves a waste of time on a stock turbo, because I have the tools to do that in my own?
I would hazard a guess the TME intercooler is just the same as the stock evo 8 one in flow capacity. I remember an older thread where the evo 8 and tme turbo's were compared and while the cfm for both were pretty much identical the tme essentially had better mid range response.
Well I got it cheap enough... It looks brand new, got it for 200 bucks!
I've also been told you don't want to over spin these materials thanks to the hazard of them coming apart.
Are you talking about the TiAl impeller? Or the stroker engine?
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Jul 31, 2010, 09:40 AM
#8
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Good Luck on the build
Here is one car from NZ that did an evo5 shaped mirage
http://www.mmc.org.nz/forum/viewtopi...evo+and+mirage
And here is my build/thread for my '96 mirage
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ed-mirage.html
Enjoy!
Here is one car from NZ that did an evo5 shaped mirage
http://www.mmc.org.nz/forum/viewtopi...evo+and+mirage
And here is my build/thread for my '96 mirage
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ed-mirage.html
Enjoy!
Just curious, why would you do that conversion in NZ, when you have access to real Evo V-VI's? I figure my project is going to cost around 20k, evo V-VI seem to go for even less!
Jul 31, 2010, 05:07 PM
#12
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Im sure your crank is good for more than 600whp which is what the rods are good for. On the other hand if your set on the manley h beams I have 3 for sale with 1k on them $175 shipped, the 4th one is $90 bucks so for $265 youll have a perfect set of manley h beams, sense new there $360 thats a steal.
Jul 31, 2010, 08:09 PM
#14
Im sure your crank is good for more than 600whp which is what the rods are good for. On the other hand if your set on the manley h beams I have 3 for sale with 1k on them $175 shipped, the 4th one is $90 bucks so for $265 youll have a perfect set of manley h beams, sense new there $360 thats a steal.
The crank will take anything you can throw at it (as long as you have a god tune, and even then its probly not the first thing to go).
Nice, pretty much the same project I'm doing! I'm pretty sure I saw that hatchback on youtube and it ran like a 12.02 or something, right?
Just curious, why would you do that conversion in NZ, when you have access to real Evo V-VI's? I figure my project is going to cost around 20k, evo V-VI seem to go for even less!
Just curious, why would you do that conversion in NZ, when you have access to real Evo V-VI's? I figure my project is going to cost around 20k, evo V-VI seem to go for even less!
The mirage conversion was done because of the weight. It's approx 150kg lighter than an Evo 4-6, and ~300kg lighter than evo 7+
We have access to alot of wrecked cars, you could literally build an evo mirage for 12-15k NZD if you had the nous to do it.
I think Dustins (silver mirage) did low 12's, he had no traction through 1st and 2nd gear, and the track was in poor condition too.
He uses it for hill climbs
.