Ball Bearing FP Black - who want's one?
Sep 15, 2010, 11:50 AM
#47
Well I talked to Hong at Mike Turbo. inc.
I got some detail about BB conversions. He said the turbine shaft is not modified. But the center cartridge is. problem is you cant machine your current evo 9 center housing as there is not enough material to house the BB diameter. So the guys doing these BB conversions are using a new center housing that is cast for BB use. This is where the problem starts. The people selling the center housings dont want to sell one or two. they want to sell hundreds at a time. So anyone interested in selling BB conversion would have to make substantial investment in some housings. I dont think the market here is strong enoug for that to happen.
He does however have the current tooling to get garrett BB centers installed inside evo 10 housings. So if you send him a evo 10 turbo he can convert it to bolt on 35r. I didnt get quote but he did say his cost for gt35r cartridge was around 1050. so add another 200 (total guess) for machine work on top of that. He is also working on BB bolt on turbos for evo 8/9. and it sounds like the target market for such a turbo was a 35r 3076 size turbo. He hopes to have such turbos by the end of the year.
I got some detail about BB conversions. He said the turbine shaft is not modified. But the center cartridge is. problem is you cant machine your current evo 9 center housing as there is not enough material to house the BB diameter. So the guys doing these BB conversions are using a new center housing that is cast for BB use. This is where the problem starts. The people selling the center housings dont want to sell one or two. they want to sell hundreds at a time. So anyone interested in selling BB conversion would have to make substantial investment in some housings. I dont think the market here is strong enoug for that to happen.
He does however have the current tooling to get garrett BB centers installed inside evo 10 housings. So if you send him a evo 10 turbo he can convert it to bolt on 35r. I didnt get quote but he did say his cost for gt35r cartridge was around 1050. so add another 200 (total guess) for machine work on top of that. He is also working on BB bolt on turbos for evo 8/9. and it sounds like the target market for such a turbo was a 35r 3076 size turbo. He hopes to have such turbos by the end of the year.
Sep 15, 2010, 02:19 PM
#48
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Yes that all makes sense - enough meat in the center housing to bore it out for the DBB pack .
Yes and Garrett don't make suitable reverse rotation turbos in the GT30xxR area . Actually the only RR BB one I can think of is the GTP38R for a Ford diseasel and its too big .
Something to look into may be trying to get Mitsubishi turbines and compressor wheels to fit an existing Garrett BB center section , I wouldn't think the bearing pack would mind which way it rotated but have to look at one in bits . I also think Misty's wheels are better suited than Garrett's typically big trim ones .
The slight downside would be the custom water and oil plumbing needed to use something like this on a 4G engine .
A .
Yes and Garrett don't make suitable reverse rotation turbos in the GT30xxR area . Actually the only RR BB one I can think of is the GTP38R for a Ford diseasel and its too big .
Something to look into may be trying to get Mitsubishi turbines and compressor wheels to fit an existing Garrett BB center section , I wouldn't think the bearing pack would mind which way it rotated but have to look at one in bits . I also think Misty's wheels are better suited than Garrett's typically big trim ones .
The slight downside would be the custom water and oil plumbing needed to use something like this on a 4G engine .
A .
Sep 15, 2010, 05:24 PM
#51
Yes that all makes sense - enough meat in the center housing to bore it out for the DBB pack .
Yes and Garrett don't make suitable reverse rotation turbos in the GT30xxR area . Actually the only RR BB one I can think of is the GTP38R for a Ford diseasel and its too big .
Something to look into may be trying to get Mitsubishi turbines and compressor wheels to fit an existing Garrett BB center section , I wouldn't think the bearing pack would mind which way it rotated but have to look at one in bits . I also think Misty's wheels are better suited than Garrett's typically big trim ones .
The slight downside would be the custom water and oil plumbing needed to use something like this on a 4G engine .
A .
Yes and Garrett don't make suitable reverse rotation turbos in the GT30xxR area . Actually the only RR BB one I can think of is the GTP38R for a Ford diseasel and its too big .
Something to look into may be trying to get Mitsubishi turbines and compressor wheels to fit an existing Garrett BB center section , I wouldn't think the bearing pack would mind which way it rotated but have to look at one in bits . I also think Misty's wheels are better suited than Garrett's typically big trim ones .
The slight downside would be the custom water and oil plumbing needed to use something like this on a 4G engine .
A .
My own opinion is Id love to have a BB version of the stock frame turbos, as im interested in the transient response for roadracing, autox, and mountain runs. THAT is where the driveability, and response of the BB turbo comes in.
BTW CBRD did say they might be able to mod a BBK full to a BB version, but never posted for sure or the cost. Now a BBK-B plus BB would be ideal IMHO
Sep 18, 2010, 01:04 PM
#52
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I'd do the BB upgrade for $500. I wonder how it would compare to say a tubular stock frame manifold that people are doing. Stock frame tubular manifold seem to add 15 - 20whp over a stock ported mani, maybe less? People pay $500 to over $1000 for those. I suppose those look cool as opposed to adding BB's, which would look the same from the outside.
Sep 18, 2010, 02:01 PM
#55
Well I talked to Hong at Mike Turbo. inc.
I got some detail about BB conversions. He said the turbine shaft is not modified. But the center cartridge is. problem is you cant machine your current evo 9 center housing as there is not enough material to house the BB diameter. So the guys doing these BB conversions are using a new center housing that is cast for BB use. This is where the problem starts. The people selling the center housings dont want to sell one or two. they want to sell hundreds at a time. So anyone interested in selling BB conversion would have to make substantial investment in some housings. I dont think the market here is strong enoug for that to happen.
He does however have the current tooling to get garrett BB centers installed inside evo 10 housings. So if you send him a evo 10 turbo he can convert it to bolt on 35r. I didnt get quote but he did say his cost for gt35r cartridge was around 1050. so add another 200 (total guess) for machine work on top of that. He is also working on BB bolt on turbos for evo 8/9. and it sounds like the target market for such a turbo was a 35r 3076 size turbo. He hopes to have such turbos by the end of the year.
I got some detail about BB conversions. He said the turbine shaft is not modified. But the center cartridge is. problem is you cant machine your current evo 9 center housing as there is not enough material to house the BB diameter. So the guys doing these BB conversions are using a new center housing that is cast for BB use. This is where the problem starts. The people selling the center housings dont want to sell one or two. they want to sell hundreds at a time. So anyone interested in selling BB conversion would have to make substantial investment in some housings. I dont think the market here is strong enoug for that to happen.
He does however have the current tooling to get garrett BB centers installed inside evo 10 housings. So if you send him a evo 10 turbo he can convert it to bolt on 35r. I didnt get quote but he did say his cost for gt35r cartridge was around 1050. so add another 200 (total guess) for machine work on top of that. He is also working on BB bolt on turbos for evo 8/9. and it sounds like the target market for such a turbo was a 35r 3076 size turbo. He hopes to have such turbos by the end of the year.
Sep 18, 2010, 03:35 PM
#56
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As usual volume sales is what makes hybrids or wildcats an economic (affordable) reality . It would be interesting to see what could be done in the way of a group buy if the numbers could be guaranteed .
I suppose if the center casting and DBB pack can be organised it may be a good way to upgrade a customers existing turbo because the wheels and housings they already have , the only discarded bits would be the old bearing housing bushes plate collar .
If a newin requires a brand new 9 turbo with machine work plus the larger comp and turbine its going to be expensive because of the need to pay for parts not used .
Personally I'd like to see many of these turbos from the standard 9 on up available with ball bearing center sections .
Now having been through a bit of research on Subaru OE style turbos I got to know a bit about the wheel sizes , the thing I can't remember is if MHI did any ball bearing ones for Fuji .
Interesting times , cheers A .
I suppose if the center casting and DBB pack can be organised it may be a good way to upgrade a customers existing turbo because the wheels and housings they already have , the only discarded bits would be the old bearing housing bushes plate collar .
If a newin requires a brand new 9 turbo with machine work plus the larger comp and turbine its going to be expensive because of the need to pay for parts not used .
Personally I'd like to see many of these turbos from the standard 9 on up available with ball bearing center sections .
Now having been through a bit of research on Subaru OE style turbos I got to know a bit about the wheel sizes , the thing I can't remember is if MHI did any ball bearing ones for Fuji .
Interesting times , cheers A .
Sep 18, 2010, 05:29 PM
#57
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http://www.exoticspeed.ca/index.php?cPath=73_74_95_560
available with a ball-bearing center cartridge that allows for 11% faster spool up then the standard sleeve bearing versions.
This has been posted before but no one has tried them. I'm so tired of the FP stock frame ball bearing conversation, it has been going nowhere for years.
It's one of these posted above (although no pricing for the BB versions) or the HKS for me.
available with a ball-bearing center cartridge that allows for 11% faster spool up then the standard sleeve bearing versions.
This has been posted before but no one has tried them. I'm so tired of the FP stock frame ball bearing conversation, it has been going nowhere for years.
It's one of these posted above (although no pricing for the BB versions) or the HKS for me.
Sep 18, 2010, 09:43 PM
#58
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Its not just the ***** we need a true TD06 RR Evo style turbine housing as well .
I'd like to see the HKS's turbine housing measured and compared to the OE Mitsy Evo 9's TD05 one .
The port shrouded compressor housings shown in the above links pics look good too .
A .
I'd like to see the HKS's turbine housing measured and compared to the OE Mitsy Evo 9's TD05 one .
The port shrouded compressor housings shown in the above links pics look good too .
A .
Sep 19, 2010, 05:05 PM
#59
http://www.exoticspeed.ca/index.php?cPath=73_74_95_560
available with a ball-bearing center cartridge that allows for 11% faster spool up then the standard sleeve bearing versions.
This has been posted before but no one has tried them. I'm so tired of the FP stock frame ball bearing conversation, it has been going nowhere for years.
It's one of these posted above (although no pricing for the BB versions) or the HKS for me.
available with a ball-bearing center cartridge that allows for 11% faster spool up then the standard sleeve bearing versions.
This has been posted before but no one has tried them. I'm so tired of the FP stock frame ball bearing conversation, it has been going nowhere for years.
It's one of these posted above (although no pricing for the BB versions) or the HKS for me.
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