Philthy748

iTrader: (21)

Dan, the point is it hasn't been done plenty of times on TS setup - I don't have direct knowledge of every single TS 3586 setup in the world, so please point out two or three of them for me. The couple of cars that I know of with the TS 3586 that have come close to 750whp (highest one I know of has hit ~740whp at full tilt) have had compromises on factory accessories, (A/C delete which I believe is good for 10-15hp, etc.) and are far from normal builds...

I guess anything is possible with the right conditions but to say it can hit 750whp no problem is a bit of a stretch IMO

The new BW turbos look very promising and I'm sure turbo selection and technology will be greatly improved over the next couple of years with all of these turbo OEM cars coming out...

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Where these discussions often get hung up is in applying an atypical example as a model of what's typical. In other words, just because a vendor managed to wring 800whp out of some turbo for a drag car with omissions, deletes, and rearranged hardware and hours upon hours of tuning time, we cannot apply these results as a realistic expectation for common street cars.

Philthy748

iTrader: (21)

That's exactly my point... I need to work on expressing my points better You're my forum role model Ted...

detroit pistins

iTrader: (102)

+1

EvoDan2004

iTrader: (94)

what does A/C have to do with it. removing A/C does not had HP. just room. my car has no A/C. since 2003 it was never used. i honestly never felt my A/C. i rather the windows down and enjoying the sound of my car. i removed my A/C to gain the room for a better flowing down pipe. and i went 3.5 inch. i know 3.5 makes no difference over 3.0 under 750hp but whatever.

750hp on a 3586 is very doable. 90% of the people will never see it. but if the motor is built right with all the right parts what is the issue? teds car makes big HP. i wont say the numbers as its not my place but his car is on a 3582 turbo making what some make on a 3586 turbo in single scroll no less. i know of several 3586 cars making 750+ some are single scroll though. its all how a car is setup. and if you think it involves 20 hours of fine tuning and some supper secret setup and a gutted car to prove it then you are greatly mistaking. there are pics on my car all over. and IMO the only true street car that gets driven. minus A/C and if i still had it i still would never use it. the point is. your saying it can not be done. well it can and has many times. a 4088r will make it too. but at a slower spoolup rate. maybe my car is a one of a kind. must be the color

Philthy748

iTrader: (21)

Dan - it's your car and it's most important that you're happy with it... Having a car with no A/C and a full roll-cage wouldn't be what I (our most of the world) consider a street car, but to each there own...

As you stated, removing the A/C does allow you to run a better flowing down-pipe (removes that hard almost 45 degree bend) and certainly helps shed weight and free's up more power by removing the compressor from the drive assembly... I would think it's good for 10-15whp...

I know you keep on saying that 750whp has been done several times on a TS 3586, and although that maybe true - show me two or three people on this forum that have...

EvoDan2004

iTrader: (94)

removing the A/C does not add HP. if the A/C was on then ok. i agree. i saw no gain other then room removing A/C .

my car does not have a full cage. its a 6 point and every inch front to back is still usable. i agree most do not want it and neither did i. but with out it is made i am happy with it. take a look at it if you go on the 23rd.

A/C weighs 30lbs. compressor, condenser, lines, brackets and whatever. if that will make a car faster then ok your right. instead of running 10.376 i would have run 10.379.

Philthy748

iTrader: (21)

Dan - to each their own... The only 'True Daily' driver that I have in the eye's of my wife is our Q5, although I drive my EVO and STI every day, lol

I was under the impression that removing the A/C would free up power based on running a less restrictive down pipe and removing the compressor from the rotating assembly - I'm going to call Jeff Evans and have him remove my A/C this week, remove that hard 45 degree bend in the down pipe and do a before and after dyno comparison... That should add some objective data to this thread

BTW, what's the 23rd... ?

EvoDan2004

iTrader: (94)

Ok now your talking about 2 different things. U claimed removing the AC adds HP. It does not. Removing the AC and making a better flowing down pipe will make more power. Yes. You are talking about 2 different things. I removed mine for a 3.5 inch dp.

Philthy748

iTrader: (21)

Dan, they go hand and hand - you are restricted if you want to run A/C.

It's semantics at this point, the car that doesn't run A/C has the ability to make more power - I'll tell everyone in a week with solid objective data...

EvoDan2004

iTrader: (94)

right but you said removing the A/C unit will make more HP. which it does not. adding a better flowing down pipe will add the power. not removing the A/C. removing the A/C allows you to make a better DP for making maximum HP.

if you go with a 3.0 exhaust you can fit a 5 inch radius bend in there so there is no need to pie cut a pipe to make it work. i used 3.5 and a 4.0 radius and had to do a little pie cut because if i didn't the power steering pump was in the way. but we have 2 different turbos so are turbine housings might not be lined up the same. just my tips though

03whitegsr

iTrader: (8)

Maybe one day, somebody will post credible results of a legitimate TS vs. SS test.

As always, I have yet to see it. I just keep hearing "you have to feel it to understand" or "it kills top end." Never any good data backing up the claims either way.

If one truly works over the other, the data is there, it just has to be collected properly.

batty200

iTrader: (3)

It appears that everyone here is really in agreement. The TS T4 housing makes less power than an open scroll t3 but spools faster. Now if it is fast enough to make the decrease in power and increase in cost worth it to you then get the TS. It is also common knowledge that an HTA86 will make over 750whp and 800+ has been acheived on that turbo on SS .82 T3 housings. The compressor is capable. The main question is if the TS T4 1.06 will allow the HTA86 to make max power. I cant see the HTA86 not spooling faster than a 4088R. What is the most a 4088R has made on a t3 SS housing?

batty200

iTrader: (3)

I also wonder how a .63 compares spool and powerwise to a TS 1.06 housing? I know AMS made some serious power using the .63 5bolt housing on the Billet 950R and Sharkbite made a ton of power. 788whp on a .63!

detroit pistins

iTrader: (102)

+1
if someone was to run the 86 on a .63 on low boost say 23-26psi, can u guys think of any disadvantages beside not using the turbo to its full potential?
Thanks