It seems to be a universal opinion that max "safe" (fully understanding the irony of the word safe as it relates to tripling factory power output) power is no more than 450 ftlbs of torque.

Next, we seem to have a lot of varrying degrees of opinion about dyno numbers and the gear used for that pull - I am unable to determine a standard here. Seems to be a preference type thing.

Clearly, the motor is working harder, our experiencing more load, in fourth gear than it is in third gear.

All this being said, is the measure of 450 ftlbs torque as a max "safe" threshold measurable from a third gear dyno pull or a fourth gear dyno pull. because of course 450 ftlbs of torque in 3rd gear will be more like 480 ft lbs of torque in fourth gear.

And maybe that last sentence answered my own question? Experts welcome here. Thanks in advance.

 

Anyone?

 

youre not really asking anything just stating something so nobody really has any input

 

Its pretty much up to the tuner, and how "pretty" he want your dyno sheet to look. For instance, Scott, formerly of TTP, dyno tuned my car on his high reading dyno in 4th (back when I had my old FP red stup). AWD motorsports did all my dyno pulls in third gear. Granted, 4th gear is the closest to a direct drive gear, but I guess you could say the "industry standard" is to do a dyno pull in 3rd gear.

 

I thought my question was very specific, perhaps I was not clear enough. Let me rephrase.

If a 3rd gear dyno pull is the standard measure and 450 ftlbs of torque is the standard agreed upon "safety" limit of a stock block - is that 450 ftlbs threshold a 3rd gear threshold or a fourth gear threshold?

Perhaps the real "safe" mark for a stock block should be stated as 415 ftlbs of torque to allow for increased load the motor will see in fourth gear since most people dyno in third....

450 ftlbs in 3rd gear = max threshold stock block?
450 ftlbs in 4th gear = max threshold stock block?

 

IMO 450lbs "safe" as in safe for what? Drag racing? Auto X? Time attack? "Safe" depends on what your doing with it (all other things being equal...etc) IMO 400lbs is the marker...for me anyway....

 

I agree safe is a relative word as stated in my first post when discussing triple the factory power output.

450 ftlbs of torque, arguably, has been many tuners benchmark threshold that is not to be crossed. My question is what gear did this threshold become established?

Tuners input?

 

It's kind of a fuzzy number really.

Safe has a lot more to do with how good your tune is, what oil was put in the car, the cars previous owners, and even if you car was built on a friday.

General consensus is 450 ft lbs at the crank is safe. Sure, you can go higher, but you better be sure your tuner and car are up to par.

 

Yes, the general consensus is 450 ft lbs. However, was that consensus formed on a 3rd gear pull or a 4th gear pull. That is what I am trying to understand.

I understand the 100 million variables around that number, I am just trying to understand the history behind this magic number that so many people on this forum now assume is gospel.

 

Well, regardless of gear it seems that if the consensus is 450 ft/lbs then it's 450 at any time. But personally, I think 400 is probably more realistic. Up at the 450 range its more of "when" rather than "if" it will let go.

 

That is my logic as well, but the simultaneous concensus is that a 3rd gear pull is the norm. Just trying to understand the relationship between these.

Really wish Mellon or AWD or Buschur would chime in here quickly with their thoughts.

 

One more thing to consider (which you probably have) is the type of dyno being used to measure the torque. My feeling is you won't find what you're looking for...too many variables.

 

On a dynojet, 428ft lbs in 3rd is 438 in 4th, the difference was zero hp and almost a double length pull.

aaron

 

Thanks Aaron that is great info. Twice the duration during a dyno makes me wonder why anyone would dyno in fourth gear...

The torque increase from fourth to third is less than I expected as well with a DJ. So for your situation with a dyno jet do you apprach 435ft lbs of torque in 3rd to account for the extra 10 to 15 the car would experience in fourth at the track potentially?

 

This is one of the most useless questions I've ever seen on this forum. You keep stating this 450 number as a threshold - stop it. It is completely arbitrary. It is meaningless. There is NO answer to the question you ask (plus you didn't even bring up 5th gear).

Now, if you ask about the power difference in 3rd vs 4th vs 5th, you should see a larger change on a Mustang dyno than on a Dynojet because the DJ can't put a real-world amount of load on the car whereas a MD can. I believe the higher amount of load on the MD will make the graph change more vs gear.

To disprove your baseless 450 number - my car has been making much more than that for 4 years of hard racing abuse and is still going strong. It has a lot more to do with proper tuning and maintenance than some arbitrary, made up number.