RSMike

iTrader: (1)

i recently talked to a race team tuner, and going from generic 1000cc injectors (i'm assuming rochester based) to ID1000cc's they came up with great results.
On C16 the race team saved 5litres of fuel over a 10lap stretch! and thats with the same AFR's...

Now i'm assuming this is because of the superior spray pattern and atomisation of the ID1000cc injectors...

My question:
Is the spray pattern and atomisation of the ID2000cc injectors (and FIC2150's) comparable to the ID1000cc injectors?

I want to go with 2000cc injectors so i can use E85 later if i want to.
I plan on running high fuel pressure (70ish base psi).

Any thoughts/ideas?

Cheers, Mike

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Part of the answer depends upon your power target and if you plan to use gasoline at all.

IF your power target is 700whp or less, and you have enough pump capacity to satisfy demand at 110 psi rail pressure, FIC lists a newer Hi-Z 1100cc type that would deliver 1460cc/min at the 70psi delta, which is enough to do the job. This will work well with gasoline (unlike the 2000s), if that is an issue. Otherwise, I'd just go to the 2000s if the engine will never see anything but E85 and is expected to generate 600+whp. I'd ask Jens about patterns and atomization efficiency between his new Hi-Z types.

RSMike

iTrader: (1)

Heya Ted,

The car is currently running pump gas. I had the idea of running the 2000cc injectors so i could experiment with injector timing for max efficiency also. The ability to run E85 in the future would just be an added bonus.

My target is less than 700whp. Even with a larger turbo, i would be aiming for 550whp ish maximum. The chassis would be too dangerous with any more than that.

Who's Jens?
Id love to get some more info about the new injectors you mentioned and the ID1000cc injectors with high fuel pressure.

The plan is to run a Bosch 044 inline with a walbro intank feeding it, without a surge tank.

Cheers, Mike

n2oiroc

iTrader: (33)

Walbro inline feeding an 044 is good for 600-650whp. If you need an 044, i have a couple im not using. And although 1,000's should be enough, i have heard nothing but good things about the 2,000's/2,150's on gas and e85.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

If 550whp is the target, forget the 2000s. You don't need them, and they won't work well with gasoline. The 1000s with elevated pressure will suffuce. Your planned pump arrangement, even at the elevated base pressure should do the job.

If you needed something slightly larger than the 1000s, I suggested asking Jens at Fuel Injector Clinic because he lists 1100s. Those may be Siemens, but I'm not sure.

n2oiroc

iTrader: (33)

I havent heard anything bad about the 2,000's on gas. What is the issue?

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

I have, but that's expected. It's moot anyway, because there is no reason to use such a large injector in this case.

n2oiroc

iTrader: (33)

Well, i need them.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

If it's necessary to use gasoline, consider alternate options. If it's only E85, it doesn't really matter.

RSMike

iTrader: (1)

i'd like to hear the problems you've had/seen with the ~2000cc injectors if you're willing to share Ted.

I have sent an email to FIC, i'll post the info up here when i get a reply.

Cheers, Mike

tscompusa2

iTrader: (22)

when i ran the 2150cc fic bluemax on 93octane my car felt better then on e85 just cruising around. of course both injectors are bosch, so i imagine 2150 are the same as id2000 cept the id2000 are tested more thoroughly. correct me if im wrong. i noticed no issues at all on 93oct with 2150cc.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

I've run across mixed comments where that is concerned, so assume that FWIW. My only question here is if a 1000 with elevated pressure is sufficient to do both jobs, why would anyone want an injector that is double the capacity? I do not see the logic behind that.

RSMike

iTrader: (1)

Improving efficiency from improved injector timing.

If you have large injector duty cycles, the fuel sits/pools on the closed intake valve until it opens again (think 90%).
If you have a large injector with small injector duty cycle (lets assume 35%) and if you time it right, you can have no fuel sitting/pooling on the intake valve.
You can inject fuel just before it opens, and stop injecting just before the valve closes.

This way the fuel is carried into the combustion chamber without coming to a rest on the valve, resulting in better fuel/air mixing.

This can be seen on the dyno. When correct injector timing is dialled in, the AFR become richer for the same amount of fuel injected.

This is what i'm interested in testing, and why i was asking the questions about ~2000cc injectors

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

It's well documented that altering injector timing such that any injector fired onto an open intake valve provides a slight increase in torque. The downside is it also increases wash-down of the cylinder walls, which accelerates wear. This doesn't matter in race engines, which are rebuilt frequently. This situation doesn't work for me, but if you're ok with it, fine. I'm not sure I see the value if you're hp limited anyway, unless this is sanctioned racing, and fuel economy at WOT is a factor.

I might also add that if you're plan is to use 70psi base pressure on a 2000cc injector, that works out to tuning the equivalent of a 2650cc injector at idle. A 1000cc injector at 70psi base pressure is about 1300cc/min.

RSMike

iTrader: (1)

sorry i didn't know it increases wash-down. Could you please explain how it does that?

i see your point about the injectors. 1000's (or 1100's) look like the best bet, and even if i go to E85 i still should have enough fuelling.