Guru's Oil Help Please
Dec 11, 2010, 08:19 AM
#18
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Dec 12, 2010, 02:48 PM
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Hi EvocentriK , I also live in Oz and actually from a post on page 1 I started looking into Mobil 1 EP 10W30 and the High Mileage 10W40 oils .
I think they were intended to be US and European marketed oils but they are actually available here in Sydney at GL Lubricants PTY LTD .
As for oil temperature I would not be overly concerned at running up round 95 or even 100 degrees centigrade . From memory an Evos oil bypass thermostat doesn't begin to open until the temp reaches ~ 100 degrees C .
Oil isn't like water and the sky doesn't start to fall in at 100-110C , some say that using xW50 or xW60 grade oils stand up better at higher temperatures but I think you'd have to be seeing long periods of 125C - 130C+ to be seriously worried about it .
Being into Evos you would know that there are a number of heat beating strategies out there like aftermarket radiators / oil coolers / earlier opening coolant thermostats / oil cooler thermostats etc .
I've been using Mobil 1 Racing 4T 15W50 but I think its overkill for a car thats really only driven around the suburbs so I'm going to think about using the M1 EP or High Mileage because a good 10W30 or 10W40 , good meaning good additive package and base stock , should be more than adequate for most Australian conditions .
Unless people are hardened Eco ***** I don't reckon a little extra ZDDP can be seen as a bad thing and even if hardened the conscious could be saved by running converters in good nick .
Have a look at GL Lubricants because they bring in a range of Mobil Shell and Redline products and the numbers look pretty good compared to what Ripco and Super Heap ask .
Lastly as mentioned above 4G63T's come with roller rockers and hydraulic rocker pivots so the valve train isn't exactly lacking in std form . Generally the turbos have healthy sized turbine housings compared to most OE things and they are all water cooled which helps heaps at shut down time .
Fresh oil and filter every 5000 Km and fresh every time it goes to the track .
Proper basic maintenance and a bit of mechanical sympathy and it should have a long life .
A .
I think they were intended to be US and European marketed oils but they are actually available here in Sydney at GL Lubricants PTY LTD .
As for oil temperature I would not be overly concerned at running up round 95 or even 100 degrees centigrade . From memory an Evos oil bypass thermostat doesn't begin to open until the temp reaches ~ 100 degrees C .
Oil isn't like water and the sky doesn't start to fall in at 100-110C , some say that using xW50 or xW60 grade oils stand up better at higher temperatures but I think you'd have to be seeing long periods of 125C - 130C+ to be seriously worried about it .
Being into Evos you would know that there are a number of heat beating strategies out there like aftermarket radiators / oil coolers / earlier opening coolant thermostats / oil cooler thermostats etc .
I've been using Mobil 1 Racing 4T 15W50 but I think its overkill for a car thats really only driven around the suburbs so I'm going to think about using the M1 EP or High Mileage because a good 10W30 or 10W40 , good meaning good additive package and base stock , should be more than adequate for most Australian conditions .
Unless people are hardened Eco ***** I don't reckon a little extra ZDDP can be seen as a bad thing and even if hardened the conscious could be saved by running converters in good nick .
Have a look at GL Lubricants because they bring in a range of Mobil Shell and Redline products and the numbers look pretty good compared to what Ripco and Super Heap ask .
Lastly as mentioned above 4G63T's come with roller rockers and hydraulic rocker pivots so the valve train isn't exactly lacking in std form . Generally the turbos have healthy sized turbine housings compared to most OE things and they are all water cooled which helps heaps at shut down time .
Fresh oil and filter every 5000 Km and fresh every time it goes to the track .
Proper basic maintenance and a bit of mechanical sympathy and it should have a long life .
A .
Dec 13, 2010, 08:48 AM
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Was hoping to get some feadback from some engine builders on this post, but I can understand why they would not post. I did not want this post to turn into an "Oil Brand" debate. Just inquirering why builders (not giving up names they know who they are) recommend 50w oil in an OEM block and Turbo.
I have argued the ZDDP issue on other posts, and to me that is beating on a dead horse. That is a totally another topic which doesnt apply to this one. Unless a builder states that he or she uses a 50w oil because of the ZDDP values in it? I just don't think that is the case. I believe people believe that "thicker" oils creat less heat, or carry away heat better, which seems not to be the case.
Oil is a very touchy subject. Many people have brand preference, and many don't even know why they use what they use. Just that they were "told" to use it. That is fine I suppose, but for me, I am asking the why?? Remember folks, we are talking OEM with bolt ons, not some full out AMS or Bucshur build here.
Any chance AMS or Buschur would chime in on this? Mike at Road Race would know as well since he has built more 4G63's than probably anyone. I have emailed many people about the use of 50w oils, but no one really tells the why to, just that they do.
Maybe its just one of those things that you just don't ask? I guess I am the sore thumb who wants to know and not just follow the rule of thumb.
Thanks For all your replies hope we get some more from some builders out there
I have argued the ZDDP issue on other posts, and to me that is beating on a dead horse. That is a totally another topic which doesnt apply to this one. Unless a builder states that he or she uses a 50w oil because of the ZDDP values in it? I just don't think that is the case. I believe people believe that "thicker" oils creat less heat, or carry away heat better, which seems not to be the case.
Oil is a very touchy subject. Many people have brand preference, and many don't even know why they use what they use. Just that they were "told" to use it. That is fine I suppose, but for me, I am asking the why?? Remember folks, we are talking OEM with bolt ons, not some full out AMS or Bucshur build here.
Any chance AMS or Buschur would chime in on this? Mike at Road Race would know as well since he has built more 4G63's than probably anyone. I have emailed many people about the use of 50w oils, but no one really tells the why to, just that they do.
Maybe its just one of those things that you just don't ask? I guess I am the sore thumb who wants to know and not just follow the rule of thumb.
Thanks For all your replies hope we get some more from some builders out there
Dec 13, 2010, 02:42 PM
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Here is a pic of at least how clean M1 EP 10/30 has kept the valvetrain, These pics were taken when my valve springs and retainers were being put in.
I would imagine the rest of the engine looks the same. As for wear goes, my UOA's have looked great as well, Here is a quote from blackstone labs on my last UOA.
JEFF: Looks like you've got a nice 2.0L engine under the hood of your Evo. Universal averages are based
on 3,000 miles on the oil, and your wear read at or close to those averages. The oil was in good shape
physically, containing no moisture, fuel, or coolant. Silicon read normally, which tells us the air filter is still
getting the job done. Insolubles give us an idea about the health of the oil filtration system and with a low
reading of 0.2%, we'd say your filter is working well. All in all, this looks like a great engine! No problem to
report at 42,800 miles.
I would imagine the rest of the engine looks the same. As for wear goes, my UOA's have looked great as well, Here is a quote from blackstone labs on my last UOA.
JEFF: Looks like you've got a nice 2.0L engine under the hood of your Evo. Universal averages are based
on 3,000 miles on the oil, and your wear read at or close to those averages. The oil was in good shape
physically, containing no moisture, fuel, or coolant. Silicon read normally, which tells us the air filter is still
getting the job done. Insolubles give us an idea about the health of the oil filtration system and with a low
reading of 0.2%, we'd say your filter is working well. All in all, this looks like a great engine! No problem to
report at 42,800 miles.
Dec 14, 2010, 09:02 AM
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Dec 17, 2010, 12:47 AM
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M1 0-40 is a very good oil from what I have read. For the same money though, I may give the Redline a try. I just have never ran an Ester based (group 5) oil before. So I am not sure what to expect. I have always run PAO based oils. So I am debating to do it or not. I was considering the use of the 0-40 M1 because so many people seem to like it, and its UOA's look pretty good. So I am still on the fence on that one. Im not due for an oil change for 2K more miles, so I have time to think about it.
Would you mind Pming me where you find Redline motor oil for about the same as M1 0w-40 oil?
Also the different oil temps are sensor based issues sort of speak. I run oil temps in 190*F - 200*F in the summer to 180* - 190*F in the winter from my Defi BF oil temp guage. I get that temp after about 10 min of driving or about 8 miles. Please keep posting info as it is always very useful.