Compressor wheel design, Garrett GTX
Dec 22, 2010, 10:27 PM
#18
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._Machined.html
they were talking about "Identical" sized compressor wheels
Saying FP or Precision turbo started Billet wheels is like saying Metallica wrote "Turn the Page", and not Bob Seger.........so it comes down to what version you like really.
they were talking about "Identical" sized compressor wheels
Saying FP or Precision turbo started Billet wheels is like saying Metallica wrote "Turn the Page", and not Bob Seger.........so it comes down to what version you like really.
Dec 22, 2010, 10:46 PM
#20
i wasnt implying fp was the first, i was just saying that i personally have never seen other turbos with billet wheels before fp. once fp turbos hit the market and dominated dynos, is when i started to see all sorts of billet wheel turbos.
cant wait for testing on these though, specially the atp stock location turbos.
Dec 22, 2010, 11:04 PM
#21
Google the Garrett TR30r..it dominated WRC and Le Mans.
The billet Compressor turbos were mostly built for race teams...not available to the public for some time. They were only made on demand at times.
Casting the Comp wheels saved Garrett time when Mass producing their turbos. So they stuck with that process for awhile.
Fp does to stock turbos what [insert favorite engine builder] does with the 4G63. They take a stock turbo and push it past what it was built to do.
The billet Compressor turbos were mostly built for race teams...not available to the public for some time. They were only made on demand at times.
Casting the Comp wheels saved Garrett time when Mass producing their turbos. So they stuck with that process for awhile.
Fp does to stock turbos what [insert favorite engine builder] does with the 4G63. They take a stock turbo and push it past what it was built to do.
Dec 23, 2010, 08:52 AM
#24
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._Machined.html
they were talking about "Identical" sized compressor wheels
they were talking about "Identical" sized compressor wheels
Dec 23, 2010, 08:59 AM
#25
FYI, all the OEMs (Garrett, Borg Warner, MHI, IHI, etc) have made billet wheels for decades. Often for testing purposes to test out new aero. Other situations include low volume, or rapid time to market, or where increased fatigue life is required (making from forged billet vs. cast). I think BW is the only other company making aftermarket turbos with wheels from forged billet.
Let say you only need 50 wheels. I'd guess tooling is in the ball park of $100k. Lets pretend piece price for the castings is $10 each. So that's $100,500 for 50 wheels. Or... you can machine out 50 wheels for a few hundred bucks each. Lets say $250 per wheel. So that's $12500 for your 50 wheels. Which one are you going to do?
Let say you only need 50 wheels. I'd guess tooling is in the ball park of $100k. Lets pretend piece price for the castings is $10 each. So that's $100,500 for 50 wheels. Or... you can machine out 50 wheels for a few hundred bucks each. Lets say $250 per wheel. So that's $12500 for your 50 wheels. Which one are you going to do?
Dec 25, 2010, 03:22 PM
#26
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With a new compressor design.
just curious, what turbos did they offer with billet wheels before?
i wasnt implying fp was the first, i was just saying that i personally have never seen other turbos with billet wheels before fp. once fp turbos hit the market and dominated dynos, is when i started to see all sorts of billet wheel turbos.
cant wait for testing on these though, specially the atp stock location turbos.
i wasnt implying fp was the first, i was just saying that i personally have never seen other turbos with billet wheels before fp. once fp turbos hit the market and dominated dynos, is when i started to see all sorts of billet wheel turbos.
cant wait for testing on these though, specially the atp stock location turbos.
FYI, all the OEMs (Garrett, Borg Warner, MHI, IHI, etc) have made billet wheels for decades. Often for testing purposes to test out new aero. Other situations include low volume, or rapid time to market, or where increased fatigue life is required (making from forged billet vs. cast). I think BW is the only other company making aftermarket turbos with wheels from forged billet.
Let say you only need 50 wheels. I'd guess tooling is in the ball park of $100k. Lets pretend piece price for the castings is $10 each. So that's $100,500 for 50 wheels. Or... you can machine out 50 wheels for a few hundred bucks each. Lets say $250 per wheel. So that's $12500 for your 50 wheels. Which one are you going to do?
Let say you only need 50 wheels. I'd guess tooling is in the ball park of $100k. Lets pretend piece price for the castings is $10 each. So that's $100,500 for 50 wheels. Or... you can machine out 50 wheels for a few hundred bucks each. Lets say $250 per wheel. So that's $12500 for your 50 wheels. Which one are you going to do?
Dec 25, 2010, 04:48 PM
#27
Multi-axis CNC milling of parts from billet stock, yeah, FP must have invented that
Not that FP hasn't delivered some very nice turbos for us, they have. But putting tried and true technology to use in fabricating automotive parts is hardly groundbreaking.
Not that FP hasn't delivered some very nice turbos for us, they have. But putting tried and true technology to use in fabricating automotive parts is hardly groundbreaking.
Dec 25, 2010, 05:31 PM
#28
There's nothing 'technology' about 'billet'. Billet is simply a material form. The improvements in the aerodynamics are what improved the performance relative to the older designs.
Garrett chose to fully machine these due to low volume and time to market. They chose to machine them from forged billet to increase strength and therefore reliability.
OEs stick to speed limits for turbos, people in aftermarket do not; i.e. people overspin the hell out of turbos so might as well make the compressor as strong as possible short of going with titanium.
Garrett chose to fully machine these due to low volume and time to market. They chose to machine them from forged billet to increase strength and therefore reliability.
OEs stick to speed limits for turbos, people in aftermarket do not; i.e. people overspin the hell out of turbos so might as well make the compressor as strong as possible short of going with titanium.
Forged, fully-machined compressor wheel featuring next-generation GTX aerodynamics
If the improvements come from improved aerodynamics then you have to look at what changed that allowed them to improve the aerodynamics of the wheel.
Looking at the individual components the only thing that changed between the GT and GTX series is the compressor wheels?
I can say with 99 percent certainty that strength was not at the top of the list for why they decided to go ahead and produce a billet wheel turbo, because there was no problem in the past with the regularly GT series failing. That's not to say the billet wheels aren't stronger than the old cast ones but as I understood it, the move to billet was made because you could make the blades themselves thinner as a result of starting out with a stronger material, and you can also make the hub of the compressor wheel smaller allowing the turbo to eat more air.
If you have any insight into the issue please answer these questions for us mere mortals
Sam
Last edited by scorke; Dec 25, 2010 at 10:19 PM.
