New BW EFR Turbo Thread
Jun 12, 2012 | 10:42 PM
#1861
Borg Warner EFRs are scheduled to resume shipping in August. This long wait (1.5 years since the launch) has not been easy for Full-Race to work around. The fact that the EFR's are that good is what keeps us hanging on. As of right now, there is nothing like these turbos on the market. While there are different brands with comparable dyno charts, none have integrated wastegates, built-in BOV, stainless turbine housing, titanium turbine wheel, high grade bearing, etc that the EFR comes standard with. We are grateful to everyone who has remained patient, as this has taken a good deal longer than any of us could have anticipated.
the way EFR's respond to throttle input is remarkable. By cutting the rotational inertia in half it makes for a noticeable improvement to any experienced driver. An additional benefit (as you found) is the power it makes at low rpm under heavy load is very high. This is similar to what Mark Shead saw on a twinscroll 7670 months ago. Ive been fortunate to daily drive my EFR evo every day and I just keep grinning
thanks mike - I would be interested to know what your shaft speeds are running at on the 2.0L subie. You are not alone in looking for that 8374 but hopefully we can fill the backorders quickly and make this waiting game a thing of the past
the way EFR's respond to throttle input is remarkable. By cutting the rotational inertia in half it makes for a noticeable improvement to any experienced driver. An additional benefit (as you found) is the power it makes at low rpm under heavy load is very high. This is similar to what Mark Shead saw on a twinscroll 7670 months ago. Ive been fortunate to daily drive my EFR evo every day and I just keep grinning
thanks mike - I would be interested to know what your shaft speeds are running at on the 2.0L subie. You are not alone in looking for that 8374 but hopefully we can fill the backorders quickly and make this waiting game a thing of the past
Jun 13, 2012 | 08:12 AM
#1863
Jun 13, 2012 | 08:21 AM
#1864
It likely is going to come down to features and reliability, I bet it's going to be a wash on performance. For an Evo, it seem like you pretty much have to avoid the internally gated T4 stuff. That leaves the internal BOV, BCS, titanium turbine wheel, stainless steel housing as features they offer over Garrett. I'd only consider the last two of interest as it seems like the BOV and BCS won't fit in the EVO anyway?
Don't get me wrong though, titanium wheels and stainless housings are big selling points, provided they show to be reliable when pushed to the limit over time. Hope to see them prove out though as I'm all about better technology if they can keep the price in reason.
Jun 13, 2012 | 08:24 AM
#1865
Ok I am really diggin this setup. My question to the crew is with my current setup how much extra would I need to do? I am assuming I would have to do a new EM and reflange my DP.
I love my the stock IX turbo and I have done well with my setup. I am so close to 400 on pump gas.. I Daily drive my car so don't want to have a ton of lag. So instead of the FP Green this setup seemed to be more appealing.
My mods are in my sig. I was thinking of the BorgWarner EFR 7064 Turbo
T4 twin scroll. What do you think with my current setup?
I love my the stock IX turbo and I have done well with my setup. I am so close to 400 on pump gas.. I Daily drive my car so don't want to have a ton of lag. So instead of the FP Green this setup seemed to be more appealing.
My mods are in my sig. I was thinking of the BorgWarner EFR 7064 Turbo
T4 twin scroll. What do you think with my current setup?
Jun 13, 2012 | 10:44 AM
#1866
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
From: England
Here my testing with a EFR7670 on a 2.2lt engine,
All power runs where started at 2250rpm,
This is the 7670 on a 2.2 against the S200sx on a 2lt and the S200 run was loaded up and started 1000rpm later than the 7670,
These are also UK rated HP on a Dyno Dynamics RR and on UK pump fuel.
Mark
All power runs where started at 2250rpm,
This is the 7670 on a 2.2 against the S200sx on a 2lt and the S200 run was loaded up and started 1000rpm later than the 7670,
These are also UK rated HP on a Dyno Dynamics RR and on UK pump fuel.
Mark
Jun 13, 2012 | 11:15 AM
#1868
Here my testing with a EFR7670 on a 2.2lt engine http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ts/erf22lt.jpg This is the 7670 on a 2.2 against the S200sx on a 2lt and the S200 run was loaded up and started 1000rpm later than the 7670, these are also UK rated HP on a Dyno Dynamics RR and on UK pump fuel. Mark
the boost plot you posted looks great:
For an Evo, it seem like you pretty much have to avoid the internally gated T4 stuff. That leaves the internal BOV, BCS, titanium turbine wheel, stainless steel housing as features they offer over Garrett. I'd only consider the last two of interest as it seems like the BOV and BCS won't fit in the EVO anyway?
Last edited by Geoff Raicer; Jun 13, 2012 at 11:25 AM.
Jun 13, 2012 | 11:22 AM
#1869
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
From: England
This is also how the car runs everyday on the road its no dyno queen he has that HP ever press of the pedal.
Mark
Jun 13, 2012 | 11:39 AM
#1870
I dont know why you would think that? my evo uses the internal gate, integrated BOV, and BCS. It all fits our top mount evo manifold, if you use an evo 6 style radiator. edit: for the external WG setup like sierra sierra ran, they did have to relocate the BCS but the integrated EFR BOV was retained. not a big deal since most everyone with an evo already has their own boost control and solenoid already
You are suggesting a 76mm wheel rated at 65 lb/min is going to make 720WHP on a dynojet?
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Jun 13, 2012 at 11:45 AM.
Jun 13, 2012 | 12:38 PM
#1871
you are correct, we are not actively putting EFR updates on our site until we have turbos in stock and our backordered customers are filled. Here is a photo of my evo's engine bay with the internal WG twinscroll 8374 and evo6 style radiator:
note the oil feed must come from the filter housing for this setup, so I use a -6AN feed line. the cyl head's oil port gets plugged, same as how FP does it
note the oil feed must come from the filter housing for this setup, so I use a -6AN feed line. the cyl head's oil port gets plugged, same as how FP does it
Last edited by Geoff Raicer; Jun 13, 2012 at 12:41 PM.
Jun 13, 2012 | 01:08 PM
#1872
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
From: England
I must have missed it and it's not on your site, but in this very thread there are a couple different setups that seem to have issues fitting these turbos, without the internal gate, into the engine bay using the Full-Race manifold and downpipe? That's what would lead me to beleive it's not going to happen.
You are suggesting a 76mm wheel rated at 65 lb/min is going to make 720WHP on a dynojet?
You are suggesting a 76mm wheel rated at 65 lb/min is going to make 720WHP on a dynojet?
The 1000ID injectors are running at 94% at 7000rpm onwards at 11.7afr so this is a guide also.
Mark
Jun 13, 2012 | 02:19 PM
#1874
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
From: NY
Seen thousands times
he is saying DJ shows 20% than UK hp, so 720 would be FWhp:
if you turn everything into DJ wheel hp and assuming for example a 20% of trans losses, 600 UK FWhp are around 600 DJ Whp
Jun 13, 2012 | 03:47 PM
#1875
The question was how would it compare to a dynojet (WHP) and he responded with 20% more power. I would agree with the thought of closer to 600WHP. I can't say I've seen 720WHP on a 76mm turbo thousands of times, and that was what made me ask that question.
Geoff, looks awesome on the setup and I hope you guys can start getting those turbochargers in consistently so we can get some results from numerous people and on numerous sizes. I imagine you are far more frustrated than even the people that have paid for them already. You are likely the one taking the heat for these orders when it’s out of your control. You are no doubt more frustrated than a window-shopper like myself.
Geoff, looks awesome on the setup and I hope you guys can start getting those turbochargers in consistently so we can get some results from numerous people and on numerous sizes. I imagine you are far more frustrated than even the people that have paid for them already. You are likely the one taking the heat for these orders when it’s out of your control. You are no doubt more frustrated than a window-shopper like myself.