BBK Full compressor surge at only 27 psi?
Feb 7, 2011, 07:20 PM
#16
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A few shots in the dark: 1)If the BBK-B turbocharger is configured with a larger turbine wheel than that used on the BBK-Full, then I would try that wheel on your surging BBK-Full. 2)Try running a stock IX MR DV w/o crushing instead of the DV that you are currently using. 3) Is the turbine housing on your BBK-Full totally ported? 4)Actually the FP ported shroud comp housing for the BBK, eventhough it is not officially sanctioned by CBRD may, as a practical matter, resolve your surge issues. 5)Also, you might try playing around with WG preload via the adjustable threaded WG actuator rod on your turbo.
Sometimes I stop and wonder why CBRD systematically attempts to quash open forum discussion of any reported surge/creep issues related to their proprietary turbos from being ventillated openly on the EvoM forums?
I ask myself why issues of surge and boost creep with respect to the CBRD BBK's should be restricted to exclusive telephone conversations, and/or private messages with Chad? What's the fear? Why can't every man or woman on EvoM be privy to the causal factors involved? After all, this is supposed to be an open discussion forum, isn't it?
The CBRD BBK is just another good turbo among several stock-framed options with potential surge issues. Come on now. Any 16G based turbo can be made to creep or surge given the right set of circumstances. Big deal.
Sometimes I stop and wonder why CBRD systematically attempts to quash open forum discussion of any reported surge/creep issues related to their proprietary turbos from being ventillated openly on the EvoM forums?
I ask myself why issues of surge and boost creep with respect to the CBRD BBK's should be restricted to exclusive telephone conversations, and/or private messages with Chad? What's the fear? Why can't every man or woman on EvoM be privy to the causal factors involved? After all, this is supposed to be an open discussion forum, isn't it?
The CBRD BBK is just another good turbo among several stock-framed options with potential surge issues. Come on now. Any 16G based turbo can be made to creep or surge given the right set of circumstances. Big deal.
Last edited by sparky; Feb 7, 2011 at 08:50 PM.
Feb 8, 2011, 06:27 AM
#17
A few shots in the dark: 1)If the BBK-B turbocharger is configured with a larger turbine wheel than that used on the BBK-Full, then I would try that wheel on your surging BBK-Full. 2)Try running a stock IX MR DV w/o crushing instead of the DV that you are currently using. 3) Is the turbine housing on your BBK-Full totally ported? 4)Actually the FP ported shroud comp housing for the BBK, eventhough it is not officially sanctioned by CBRD may, as a practical matter, resolve your surge issues. 5)Also, you might try playing around with WG preload via the adjustable threaded WG actuator rod on your turbo.
Sometimes I stop and wonder why CBRD systematically attempts to quash open forum discussion of any reported surge/creep issues related to their proprietary turbos from being ventillated openly on the EvoM forums?
I ask myself why issues of surge and boost creep with respect to the CBRD BBK's should be restricted to exclusive telephone conversations, and/or private messages with Chad? What's the fear? Why can't every man or woman on EvoM be privy to the causal factors involved? After all, this is supposed to be an open discussion forum, isn't it?
The CBRD BBK is just another good turbo among several stock-framed options with potential surge issues. Come on now. Any 16G based turbo can be made to creep or surge given the right set of circumstances. Big deal.
Sometimes I stop and wonder why CBRD systematically attempts to quash open forum discussion of any reported surge/creep issues related to their proprietary turbos from being ventillated openly on the EvoM forums?
I ask myself why issues of surge and boost creep with respect to the CBRD BBK's should be restricted to exclusive telephone conversations, and/or private messages with Chad? What's the fear? Why can't every man or woman on EvoM be privy to the causal factors involved? After all, this is supposed to be an open discussion forum, isn't it?
The CBRD BBK is just another good turbo among several stock-framed options with potential surge issues. Come on now. Any 16G based turbo can be made to creep or surge given the right set of circumstances. Big deal.
the issues arise that you have to combat every opinion on the web (whether educated or not)... and a phone conversation that may last an hour isn't very effective on over the forum.
We spent a great deal of time searching our name on the forums to answer questions regarding any of our products or services... and the time required doesnt always allow us to hit on every point we need to.
Hence.. phone calls or pm's
--- We have seen all kinds of "surge" issues with almost every turbo on the market.. being blamed on bov's.... cams.... manifolds... all kinds of stuff.... the key element is determining if it is actually surging at all... and/or asking the right questions to our client to understand the conditions in which it is occuring.
Something as simple as venting or recirculating the third port of an EBCS back into the inlet pipe, or out into atmosphere can change the perception of "surge" because of the simple sound its making
cheers
cb
Feb 8, 2011, 07:11 AM
#18
EVO8LTW,
Didn't you just have a thread on here about your terrible compressor surge issues with your black?
FWIW, changing from a stock IX DV to a Tial Q caused my stock ix turbo to surge at anything over 24psi and <3500rpm. Changing the WGDC was the best move for me in terms of power and no surge.
Last edited by griceiv; Feb 8, 2011 at 07:18 AM.
Feb 8, 2011, 09:32 AM
#19
I disagree. Increasing the engine mass flow for a given pressure ratio by improving the VE will shift your point of operation on the compressor map to the right...away from the surge line.
EVO8LTW,
Didn't you just have a thread on here about your terrible compressor surge issues with your black?
FWIW, changing from a stock IX DV to a Tial Q caused my stock ix turbo to surge at anything over 24psi and <3500rpm. Changing the WGDC was the best move for me in terms of power and no surge.
EVO8LTW,
Didn't you just have a thread on here about your terrible compressor surge issues with your black?
FWIW, changing from a stock IX DV to a Tial Q caused my stock ix turbo to surge at anything over 24psi and <3500rpm. Changing the WGDC was the best move for me in terms of power and no surge.
I just really hate to do anything to slow spool with the BBK. Big torque down low is the whole reason I changed turbos. There's no doubt in my mind that I can eliminate this with less WGDC in the problem rpms/gears, or by loosening the actuator or by using a less tight BOV. But, I don't want to anything to compromise top end power or spool. I guess I just need to find the sweet spot where I get the best of all worlds. I want it all!
Feb 8, 2011, 09:33 AM
#20
Yes, I had 4th and 5th gear surge on the FP Red (64 mm) and the Black. I turned the boost down in the problem area to eliminate it.
I just really hate to do anything to slow spool with the BBK. Big torque down low is the whole reason I changed turbos. There's no doubt in my mind that I can eliminate this with less WGDC in the problem rpms/gears, or by loosening the actuator or by using a less tight BOV. But, I don't want to anything to compromise top end power or spool. I guess I just need to find the sweet spot where I get the best of all worlds. I want it all!
I just really hate to do anything to slow spool with the BBK. Big torque down low is the whole reason I changed turbos. There's no doubt in my mind that I can eliminate this with less WGDC in the problem rpms/gears, or by loosening the actuator or by using a less tight BOV. But, I don't want to anything to compromise top end power or spool. I guess I just need to find the sweet spot where I get the best of all worlds. I want it all!
give me a good number to call you at, and Ill do so later today if that suits!
cheers
cb
Feb 8, 2011, 11:23 AM
#22
I ask myself why issues of surge and boost creep with respect to the CBRD BBK's should be restricted to exclusive telephone conversations, and/or private messages with Chad? What's the fear? Why can't every man or woman on EvoM be privy to the causal factors involved? After all, this is supposed to be an open discussion forum, isn't it?
Feb 8, 2011, 07:05 PM
#25
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... issues arise that you have to combat every opinion on the web...We spent a great deal of time searching our name on the forums to answer questions regarding any of our products or services... and the time required doesnt always allow us to hit on every point we need to...Hence.. phone calls or pm's ....cheers..cb
....cheers..cbThank you for bothering to take the time to explain things from your perspective. I am beginning to see why you have such a loyal following and such a broad customer base on these forums.
Feb 8, 2011, 07:24 PM
#26
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I doubt he's making his customers sign an NDA before he helps them out. I personally would rather talk to the guy that more than likely can provide the most accurate guidance and technical support immediately instead of posting on a web forum back and forth for hours...We just need the OP to post up the basic gist of the conversation, and then results.
The OP is controlling boost through modified ECU boost control so just that puts the discussion beyond my limited sphere of comprehension.(I am not kidding). As soon as Chad starts talking about WG duty cycles and such.... I get lost. I am not being facetious either.
I wish that I could help the OP. I wonder if his BBK-Full is ported or unported? You must admit however that for $75 the FP ported surge cover for the BBK is worth a shot. Hell, if it doesn't help resolve the issue then he can always go back to his original comp housing and sell the FP ported shroud cover on the classifieds, or micropolish it and use it as a doorstop or a bookend..
Feb 8, 2011, 07:48 PM
#27
The OP is controlling boost through modified ECU boost control so just that puts the discussion beyond my limited sphere of comprehension.(I am not kidding). As soon as Chad starts talking about WG duty cycles and such.... I get lost. I am not being facetious either.
I wish that I could help the OP. I wonder if his BBK-Full is ported or unported? You must admit however that for $75 the FP ported surge cover for the BBK is worth a shot. Hell, if it doesn't help resolve the issue then he can always go back to his original comp housing and sell the FP ported shroud cover on the classifieds, or micropolish it and use it as a doorstop or a bookend..
I wish that I could help the OP. I wonder if his BBK-Full is ported or unported? You must admit however that for $75 the FP ported surge cover for the BBK is worth a shot. Hell, if it doesn't help resolve the issue then he can always go back to his original comp housing and sell the FP ported shroud cover on the classifieds, or micropolish it and use it as a doorstop or a bookend..
Feb 8, 2011, 08:29 PM
#29
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I am so old and decrepit that I actually sleep with my Merrriam-Webster's English Language Dictionary, as no worthwhile young girls will have me anymore. Really though. Chad has it right. In these cases it is best to initially establish whether or not the problem is, in fact, compressor surge, or not. Sometimes it can prove to be really tough to distinguish between compressor surge and DV flutter. But this distinction is a necessary first step.
Last edited by sparky; Feb 8, 2011 at 08:47 PM.