Dennis F

iTrader: (22)

A lot of failures?? How do you know how many turbo's FP sold and how many failed? That would be the only way to know for sure if it is a lot.

They will be doing upgrades at some point.

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...%20Release.pdf

RjRacing05

iTrader: (4)

its offical, im selling my t4 GT3586R set-up on my car getting the new DBB black. I'm really not that impressed with my current settup, the tubular manifolds almost double the exhaust volume during cruising and the lag is killing me (5400 rpms till full boost on 1.06 housing). Dont get me wrong..Its got a huge punch from 5500-8k, but I miss my quiet/fast spooling stock manifold/turbo set-up... not to mention the sleeper aspect behind it all. The only reason i didn't buy the black the first time around was all the failure posts and the "2yr" lifespan of the old one. Thanks fp, within the month you'll have a new customer

CO_VR4

iTrader: (83)

It's all in the reader, I guess.

FP Blacks and Reds were the best options out there, until the BB Blacks and Reds were announced.

The problem with any JB high performance turbocharger is that you can't idiot proof them, because they don't have a rev limiter. FP has repeatedly stated the obvious -- JB turbos of any ilk depend on floating the bearings with a film of OIL, and if they are driven overspeed, the oil film can break down. Unfortunately, many owners think if 35 PSI is good, 40 must be better. That kills thrust bearings, too. Thus, improvements in the oiling pressure source and high zinc/phos oils made the JB more reliable. It goes without saying that if you lose adequate oil pressure, even intermittently, any journal bearing turbo will be affected. If you are able to corner hard enough and long enough you'll divert oil from the oil pickup and then the turbo bearings and kill it that way, too. Of course, the same issue has been widely discussed in the context of main and rod bearing failures on road racing cars, for similar reasons...

That's what FP said in their announcement --

"Forced Performance is proud to announce the debut of our 100% brand new, patent pending, dual ceramic ball bearing design within the FP BLACK™ Turbocharger for the Lancer Evolution 4-9 vehicles. This new design virtually eliminates any limit to allowable thrust load within the turbocharger while simultaneously reducing drag and rotational resistance to spool up. The increased thrust limit significantly extends the longevity of the turbocharger when operated beyond its published flow and boost limits and eliminates the turbochargers sensitivity to lubrication interruptions due to hard acceleration and cornering forces. Recent performance testing at the MHI Research and Development Laboratories in Nagasaki, Japan verified that the design dramatically exceeds the normal allowable thrust loads for TD05/6 type turbochargers and allows for a significant increase in the available airflow from the turbocharger without bearing damage."[/QUOTE]

So, we're talking about fundamental improvements made by a new bearing design that alleviates the inherent limitations of a journal bearing system, no matter which stock frame turbocharger we're talking about.

So, some people still exceed the engineering parameters and have predictable failures. For them, FP has the best warranty service in the business. The good news is that the area under the curve that could eventually cause a JB problem won't cause one for the ball bearing version, allowing folks a greater margin in the use of their turbos.

That's great news all around.

adam_79_2005

iTrader: (16)

still wanting an answer if anyone knows, like i stated, I'm very much intrested.

CO_VR4

iTrader: (83)

Here's a comment from John Bradley on the problems with road racing any journal bearing turbo with high G loads (from his new thread on testing the FP BB HTA GREEN):

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/9563862-post36.html

Some real world experience of just what I said...

yahu

iTrader: (55)

It is? If you are referring to porting the manifold or getting something like the Mona Lisa or Toxicfab manifold, etc., messing with WG, etc. then there would certainly be more to it. But those are options and not required. Also, a lot of people have staged their cars with some of those aforementioned options anyway and are pretty much ready to plug-n-play.

You would have to retune both setups, you may have to upgrade fuel on both setups, etc., so I'm not considering those items. If you would like to enlighten me on the ~$1500 difference (a recent build on the ETS site got me to ~$4200 for a 3586 so a $1700 difference) but don't want to post, please PM me.

Ang Wen Yan

RON97 can be obtained easily in major town area
In remote area not so
The price difference is quite huge as well(RM1.9 for RON95,RM2.7 for RON97 and RM2.9 for Shell V-Power Racing which is hard to get)

jonzie04

iTrader: (3)

If anyone would like to upgrade to the new BB turbos please let me know as I would be more than happy to help offset the price by purchasing your old FP turbo. Please PM Lol....Now that's over these new turbos look AMAZING! Wish I was made of dough. Considering robbing a 7/11.

Vivid Racing

iTrader: (98)

Makes sense. I did some research and 97 RON is equivelent to 93 Octane in the USA. The USA uses AKI ratings. In certain cities, it's hard to get 93 octane here. In Arizona (where we are located), it's only sold at a few stations.

Carloverx

iTrader: (26)

Bump, did you ever find an answer??