ef3 vs new fp red bb
May 25, 2012, 08:25 AM
#62
I am not sure, my friend.
Since we are talking about the FP Black in this discussion as well, I have the EF4 with a 2.4LR and during stop and go driving, I really forget that I have such a large turbo on the car due to its responsive manners on the street.
Since we are talking about the FP Black in this discussion as well, I have the EF4 with a 2.4LR and during stop and go driving, I really forget that I have such a large turbo on the car due to its responsive manners on the street.
May 25, 2012, 11:24 AM
#65
Evolved Member
well either way you look at it, theyll make similar numbers, and if the journal bearing version is still available its not bad, just have the anti surge cover and port the hotside.. boom youll have a 500-600 hp potential car with the right tuner and gas. Journal bearing turbos arent bad sure there not as efficient as far as transient response to bb turbos. Im running a journal bearing red 413hp on 91 pump gets at least one 8k blast a day, for past 40 k just run the right type of oil , and use there oil feed line and your good. Really the only people have blown there reds mostly due to time attack or big course racing, where the oil temps can play a factor in the turbo longevity, due to multiple laps on a few mile course in 100* heat. Not to rule out maps turbo, I dont have any experience with it other then reading on here, but im running one of there parts and im sure there turbos are just as good. But then again with a bb red to map ef3 a 700 difference is quite noticeable thats a few parts installed.
May 25, 2012, 11:38 AM
#66
well either way you look at it, theyll make similar numbers, and if the journal bearing version is still available its not bad, just have the anti surge cover and port the hotside.. boom youll have a 500-600 hp potential car with the right tuner and gas. Journal bearing turbos arent bad sure there not as efficient as far as transient response to bb turbos. Im running a journal bearing red 413hp on 91 pump gets at least one 8k blast a day, for past 40 k just run the right type of oil , and use there oil feed line and your good. Really the only people have blown there reds mostly due to time attack or big course racing, where the oil temps can play a factor in the turbo longevity, due to multiple laps on a few mile course in 100* heat. Not to rule out maps turbo, I dont have any experience with it other then reading on here, but im running one of there parts and im sure there turbos are just as good. But then again with a bb red to map ef3 a 700 difference is quite noticeable thats a few parts installed.
1) Cost of rebuild from bb to jb
2) Cost difference between the 2 turbo's.
The bb will spool faster no doubt about it, but as I said is it really worth the cost between the 2 for 500 rpms 700 rpm difference? Another thing to look at is what is the budget the op has?
May 25, 2012, 03:59 PM
#67
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I came on here to figure out this same question but price wasn't an issue, so far I haven't found a single FP BB failure and they've been selling them for a while. Many reputable shops that are known for building monsters recommend them highly and use them on their personal cars. They're proven to make power and last if taken care of, and after speaking to them and them not giving me sales pitch. I even tried to get them to talk **** about MAP or Precision and they just wouldn't do it.
It's too early to tell if MAP is building a quality product there are too few out there and they all seem to be in the hands of people who were already "enthusiastic fans." MAP in this thread alone seems to want to discredit their competitors I'm guessing Chris' sig isn't a lie and he's the owner of MAP. From what I've gathered MAP used to sell FP products in fact they sold the same turbos for years they now claim to be inferior. I'd call into suspect the fact that a company can go from selling a product, to making their own that are questionably cloned or slightly enhanced forms of that product, and then allude to them being inferior products.
This thread alone has made me decide not to look into any MAP turbo in the future.
It's too early to tell if MAP is building a quality product there are too few out there and they all seem to be in the hands of people who were already "enthusiastic fans." MAP in this thread alone seems to want to discredit their competitors I'm guessing Chris' sig isn't a lie and he's the owner of MAP. From what I've gathered MAP used to sell FP products in fact they sold the same turbos for years they now claim to be inferior. I'd call into suspect the fact that a company can go from selling a product, to making their own that are questionably cloned or slightly enhanced forms of that product, and then allude to them being inferior products.
This thread alone has made me decide not to look into any MAP turbo in the future.
May 25, 2012, 04:23 PM
#68
I didn't try to discredit anything, and I certainly didn't call their product inferior (product quality is one of the few things they have going for them). I merely stated my opinion that comparing the longevity of a relatively new product to that of a similar product from an entirely different manufacturer just didn't make sense.
And we stopped selling FP turbos based on extensive backorders combined with complete and utter disregard for the well being of their dealers. Robert had an issue with our pricing of his product (we were one of many parties involved) and instead of calling to talk to me about it he sent me a letter explaining that he had cut our discount on his product in half and it would apply to any open backorders as well. This was during one of the worst backorders FP has ever had and needless to say we had several turbochargers on order. We actually incurred a financial loss on each turbocharger simply to fulfill those orders, but what else was I going to do cancel my customers orders after weeks of waiting? That was the last straw, I believe we were FP's biggest customer and after that fiasco I decided that I would become one of their biggest competitors. This is about business ethics, and to insinuate that I am the one that should be "suspect" is quite frankly ludicrous.
And we stopped selling FP turbos based on extensive backorders combined with complete and utter disregard for the well being of their dealers. Robert had an issue with our pricing of his product (we were one of many parties involved) and instead of calling to talk to me about it he sent me a letter explaining that he had cut our discount on his product in half and it would apply to any open backorders as well. This was during one of the worst backorders FP has ever had and needless to say we had several turbochargers on order. We actually incurred a financial loss on each turbocharger simply to fulfill those orders, but what else was I going to do cancel my customers orders after weeks of waiting? That was the last straw, I believe we were FP's biggest customer and after that fiasco I decided that I would become one of their biggest competitors. This is about business ethics, and to insinuate that I am the one that should be "suspect" is quite frankly ludicrous.
May 25, 2012, 04:40 PM
#70
Wow thats just terrible. I mean we all have our own opinions about what is good what is not. Needless to say I've beat the **** out of my Map turbo, ran it lean, ran it rich and it still wants more. I can't believe after what you read on this thread you would even say such a thing. I like FP products I have no issue with there stuff at all being I have products on my cars. Now ask me why I chose an ef4 turbo over a FP black. For one Chris swore to me it would be the last turbo I buy for the evo, second gave me a quality price, being a beta tester has offered up suggestions and other things to help with the turbo, fast turn around time, endless technical support. I am sure if I ran into a problem Chris would say hey dude sent it to me I'll help you out as a matter of fact I'd put money on it. They are a great shop because they do offer so much support. I know FP has pretty good support as well but none that I have like with MAP.
Last edited by CurseDSM; May 25, 2012 at 08:09 PM.
May 25, 2012, 08:57 PM
#71
Presenting your opinion as fact doesn't make it so. :P
It's called free market capitalism, get off my board hippie.
Last edited by akeric; May 25, 2012 at 09:16 PM.
May 26, 2012, 08:19 AM
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I didn't try to discredit anything, and I certainly didn't call their product inferior (product quality is one of the few things they have going for them). I merely stated my opinion that comparing the longevity of a relatively new product to that of a similar product from an entirely different manufacturer just didn't make sense.
And we stopped selling FP turbos based on extensive backorders combined with complete and utter disregard for the well being of their dealers. Robert had an issue with our pricing of his product (we were one of many parties involved) and instead of calling to talk to me about it he sent me a letter explaining that he had cut our discount on his product in half and it would apply to any open backorders as well. This was during one of the worst backorders FP has ever had and needless to say we had several turbochargers on order. We actually incurred a financial loss on each turbocharger simply to fulfill those orders, but what else was I going to do cancel my customers orders after weeks of waiting? That was the last straw, I believe we were FP's biggest customer and after that fiasco I decided that I would become one of their biggest competitors. This is about business ethics, and to insinuate that I am the one that should be "suspect" is quite frankly ludicrous.
And we stopped selling FP turbos based on extensive backorders combined with complete and utter disregard for the well being of their dealers. Robert had an issue with our pricing of his product (we were one of many parties involved) and instead of calling to talk to me about it he sent me a letter explaining that he had cut our discount on his product in half and it would apply to any open backorders as well. This was during one of the worst backorders FP has ever had and needless to say we had several turbochargers on order. We actually incurred a financial loss on each turbocharger simply to fulfill those orders, but what else was I going to do cancel my customers orders after weeks of waiting? That was the last straw, I believe we were FP's biggest customer and after that fiasco I decided that I would become one of their biggest competitors. This is about business ethics, and to insinuate that I am the one that should be "suspect" is quite frankly ludicrous.
You did it again sharing the story as to why you got into the turbo business in the first place. I as a consumer don't need to know that, in fact nobody but you and people in your organization need to know that. The only reason you would share that publicly is in a veiled attempt to discredit the other company.
So help me understand you placed orders with FP and they took your money, and then when they had your orders and your money they jacked up the price and refused to ship and wanted more money? If that's the case I don't think I would want to do business with them either.
I just have a hard time believing that a company that has never built a turbo before suddenly enters the game with this level of product without reverse engineering involved. It's also suspect that a company would sell a product for another manufacturer and then release a product just like it and not have ripped them off. Which I believe you did, after all you've shared your motive to screw them over.
All in all your actions as owner of this company in this thread have left a bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps you should get off the internet and let someone with some tact post for you.
So they didn't tell you their product was better and that map's was a "questionably cloned or slightly enhanced" version of their's? <----(Still a sales pitch btw) Everybody copies everybody, get over it
Presenting your opinion as fact doesn't make it so. :P
It's called free market capitalism, get off my board hippie.
Presenting your opinion as fact doesn't make it so. :P
It's called free market capitalism, get off my board hippie.
I agree everyone copies and it's ****ty for the real innovators because when they truly release a great product someone will make a half *** copy of it and undercut them because people are too cheap to buy the real thing. Sometimes peoples opinions are factual and correct, given Chris' response to mine I believe it was in this case but again that's just my opinion.
Well it's obvious that you're too ignorant to ever have a great idea stolen so you'll never understand.
May 26, 2012, 09:38 AM
#75
I just have a hard time believing that a company that has never built a turbo before suddenly enters the game with this level of product without reverse engineering involved. It's also suspect that a company would sell a product for another manufacturer and then release a product just like it and not have ripped them off. Which I believe you did, after all you've shared your motive to screw them over.
I agree everyone copies and it's ****ty for the real innovators because when they truly release a great product someone will make a half *** copy of it and undercut them because people are too cheap to buy the real thing. Sometimes peoples opinions are factual and correct, given Chris' response to mine I believe it was in this case but again that's just my opinion.
Well it's obvious that you're too ignorant to ever have a great idea stolen so you'll never understand.
Well it's obvious that you're too ignorant to ever have a great idea stolen so you'll never understand.