Borg Warner EFR 7670 T4 1.05AR - Detailed Pics
Nov 30, 2011, 10:35 AM
#17
I'm not planning on making them into single scroll turbo's like I did to Mike Kessler's FP Black.
I'm not putting carbide to it... I don't think they'll have issue with a little casting clean up. It's not like it needs a whole lot of it.
I'm not putting carbide to it... I don't think they'll have issue with a little casting clean up. It's not like it needs a whole lot of it.
Last edited by R/TErnie; Nov 30, 2011 at 10:54 AM.
Nov 30, 2011, 11:09 AM
#19
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(Currently enjoying 500wtq@41XXrpm from an FP black)
Nov 30, 2011, 11:25 AM
#20
After seeings CB's Mivec 2.3 with S3's and a smaller plenum manifold and a BBHTA green I'd be very surprised to see that level of torque/spool from your car. I hear these turbos are magic though so please prove me wrong and I'll start saving....
(Currently enjoying 500wtq@41XXrpm from an FP black)
(Currently enjoying 500wtq@41XXrpm from an FP black)
Nov 30, 2011, 12:00 PM
#21
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I definitely expect it to make a ton of power, and crazy peak numbers. My comments were based off of what I saw on CB's setup that also had larger displacement, mivec and S3's...
Nov 30, 2011, 12:55 PM
#27
Project Skyline,
I have a TiAL Q Bov. I'm a big fan of TiAL products. If I were doing a budget turbosetup... I would use the internal gates and their BOV. Mostly personal preference, no real engineering justification.
Boltz,
"After seeings CB's Mivec 2.3 with S3's and a smaller plenum manifold and a BBHTA green I'd be very surprised to see that level of torque/spool from your car." Remember what gear you're observing the pulls in and what dyno was used. If I did a 4th gear pull on a Dynojet, you're going to see similar numbers to Leet's dyno. If I do a 3rd gear pull on a DJ, you're going to see similar results to CB's. Lucky me, I know Aaron @ English well and you can bet your money I'll have an ER modded MIVEC gear and possibly a set of custom ER cams to replace the S3s. Shorter duration, more aggressive ramp rates, and an assymetric cam profile due to the Type 2 valve train geometry... (variable rocker ratio)
What you're missing is the super low MOI of the BW rotating assembly will cause the torque curve to literally go vertical, instead of a lazy increase in torque over RPM. So the rate of change of torque is much higher with the BW turbo than the BB FP or Garrett turbochargers...or even my old HKS7460. I think you'll see that will prove to shift peak torque 200-300 RPMs sooner than it normally would with a standard high nickel content steel alloy turbine wheel.... with a less robust CHRA. I want to be specific that the rate of change of torque will be directly related to the low MOI created by the use of the Gamma-Ti turbine wheel.
My 2.235L is a 94mm stroke, 159mm rod, with a 9:1 1.13CH Wiseco HD piston. My rods are lightweight R&R H-beams that I had custom made to achieve this R/S ratio. If you do a kinematic analysis of the geometry you'll see where the 100mm crank in any 4G block has issues. Sure it will live just like a 101mm SRT-4 engine... but you're going to wear out piston skirts, cylinder walls, and rod bearings trying to rev these engines to 8k+ Ask me how I know. I set my stroke to match my rev limit imposed by how high of an RPM I can reliably shift a non dog box Evo TRE spec 5spd gear box with a 7.25" QM 8 leg twin. I expect to have a great powerband to 8500 and have an extra 500 rpm of overrev capability (think road racing/auto-x)
1.84:1 RS Ratio - 88mm 4G64 (2.1L)
1.70:1 RS Ratio - Stock 4g63 (2.0L)
1.69:1 RS Ratio - Mine 4g64 (2.235L)
1.56:1 RS Ratio - LR 4g64 (2.4L)
1.50:1 RS Ratio - 100mm 4G63 (2.3L), and stock (2.4L) 4G64
Don't forget the basics of physics either.. F=MA
By using a lighter rod I've reduced my reciprocating mass significantly over most people's manley I-beam con rod setups. This means that I can rev mine to the same RPM with less Force...
Smurf,
I'm doing all the fabrication, engine assembly, tuning, wiring, wrenching, etc. I'll be doing my engine tuning on English's AWD DJ and/or Drift Office's AWD DJ. I'm also planning on getting on an AWD Dynapack to tune transients.
I've got it planned out to run a pretty well instrumented engine will all sensors internally logged in the v-88.
here's a setup I did for a 4094R with a single Tial 60mm gate for a Dodge Neon. I'm thinking I'm going to be using either sch10 1.25" pipe or 1.625" 20ga 321 stainless. Still undecided. I need to figure out the weight savings difference.
Here's one with a s366 IIRC with twin TiAL MVSs & a 4" downpipe. Also for a Neon/SRT-4 The 2nd wastegate actually tucks inside the webbing of the SRT-4 block... Using up all the space I have.
I have a TiAL Q Bov. I'm a big fan of TiAL products. If I were doing a budget turbosetup... I would use the internal gates and their BOV. Mostly personal preference, no real engineering justification.
Boltz,
"After seeings CB's Mivec 2.3 with S3's and a smaller plenum manifold and a BBHTA green I'd be very surprised to see that level of torque/spool from your car." Remember what gear you're observing the pulls in and what dyno was used. If I did a 4th gear pull on a Dynojet, you're going to see similar numbers to Leet's dyno. If I do a 3rd gear pull on a DJ, you're going to see similar results to CB's. Lucky me, I know Aaron @ English well and you can bet your money I'll have an ER modded MIVEC gear and possibly a set of custom ER cams to replace the S3s. Shorter duration, more aggressive ramp rates, and an assymetric cam profile due to the Type 2 valve train geometry... (variable rocker ratio)
What you're missing is the super low MOI of the BW rotating assembly will cause the torque curve to literally go vertical, instead of a lazy increase in torque over RPM. So the rate of change of torque is much higher with the BW turbo than the BB FP or Garrett turbochargers...or even my old HKS7460. I think you'll see that will prove to shift peak torque 200-300 RPMs sooner than it normally would with a standard high nickel content steel alloy turbine wheel.... with a less robust CHRA. I want to be specific that the rate of change of torque will be directly related to the low MOI created by the use of the Gamma-Ti turbine wheel.
My 2.235L is a 94mm stroke, 159mm rod, with a 9:1 1.13CH Wiseco HD piston. My rods are lightweight R&R H-beams that I had custom made to achieve this R/S ratio. If you do a kinematic analysis of the geometry you'll see where the 100mm crank in any 4G block has issues. Sure it will live just like a 101mm SRT-4 engine... but you're going to wear out piston skirts, cylinder walls, and rod bearings trying to rev these engines to 8k+ Ask me how I know. I set my stroke to match my rev limit imposed by how high of an RPM I can reliably shift a non dog box Evo TRE spec 5spd gear box with a 7.25" QM 8 leg twin. I expect to have a great powerband to 8500 and have an extra 500 rpm of overrev capability (think road racing/auto-x)
1.84:1 RS Ratio - 88mm 4G64 (2.1L)
1.70:1 RS Ratio - Stock 4g63 (2.0L)
1.69:1 RS Ratio - Mine 4g64 (2.235L)
1.56:1 RS Ratio - LR 4g64 (2.4L)
1.50:1 RS Ratio - 100mm 4G63 (2.3L), and stock (2.4L) 4G64
Don't forget the basics of physics either.. F=MA
By using a lighter rod I've reduced my reciprocating mass significantly over most people's manley I-beam con rod setups. This means that I can rev mine to the same RPM with less Force...
Smurf,
I'm doing all the fabrication, engine assembly, tuning, wiring, wrenching, etc. I'll be doing my engine tuning on English's AWD DJ and/or Drift Office's AWD DJ. I'm also planning on getting on an AWD Dynapack to tune transients.
I've got it planned out to run a pretty well instrumented engine will all sensors internally logged in the v-88.here's a setup I did for a 4094R with a single Tial 60mm gate for a Dodge Neon. I'm thinking I'm going to be using either sch10 1.25" pipe or 1.625" 20ga 321 stainless. Still undecided. I need to figure out the weight savings difference.
Here's one with a s366 IIRC with twin TiAL MVSs & a 4" downpipe. Also for a Neon/SRT-4 The 2nd wastegate actually tucks inside the webbing of the SRT-4 block...
Using up all the space I have.
Last edited by R/TErnie; Nov 30, 2011 at 01:08 PM.
Nov 30, 2011, 01:10 PM
#28
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aww i was hoping to see someone test the BOV to see how well it performs. what about boost control? are you going to the included solenoid or a different setup? its another part i would like to see tested
Nov 30, 2011, 01:28 PM
#30
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My comparison was more towards the S3 cams and going off of memory of Lucas' BB green vs. CB's BB green setup (CB's was about 500rpm laggier), granted because this was off the top of my head, which gear the pull was done in wasn't a consideration.
It was more a consideration of the cams since you mentioned the S3's and obviously such a large cam profile with a lot of duration can and will drastically shift the curve to the right (not counting the high degree of variability for variable valve timing).
I did mention the point of not even knowing anything about Leet's car and when I said I'll be surprised to see 500lb/ft at the wheels before 4000rpm, I assumed you were still on the 2.0.
Regardless the outcome, I'm very interested to see how it all performs together. Sounds amazing on paper!
It was more a consideration of the cams since you mentioned the S3's and obviously such a large cam profile with a lot of duration can and will drastically shift the curve to the right (not counting the high degree of variability for variable valve timing).
I did mention the point of not even knowing anything about Leet's car and when I said I'll be surprised to see 500lb/ft at the wheels before 4000rpm, I assumed you were still on the 2.0.
Regardless the outcome, I'm very interested to see how it all performs together. Sounds amazing on paper!