Anees

Hi guys,

Hope you are all well.

I am from the UK and own a Evo 8 MR. My car is designed as a FAST ROAD CAR with good low down torque and top end power. I value response and drivability much more then figures.

My car has been at my tuners for a few months and from what I can remember the current spec is:

2.2L Long Rod (Ross Sport 94mm (2.2) Billet Crank Shaft, R&R Ross Sport LW Pro-Billet I-Beam Connecting Rods (153mm), CP Custom X-Forged Pistons)

FP RED HTA Turbo

Cosworth M2 272 Cams with vernier springs and retainers

Adjustable Cam gears

LR19 Head Studs

Stock Cylinder Head Glass Flowed, Ported, Polished and Gas flowed

JMF Exhaust Manifold

MAP Rev 2 Ported Intake Manifold and s90 70mm Throttle Body

1000CC Injector Dynamics Injectors

340L Stealth Fuel Pump

ACT Streetlite Flywheel and Clutch

Syvec ECUs

loads of other engine bits and pieces but can't remember them all off the top of my head!

Basically my car is still at the tuners, even though it is done because I have some work going on at home at the moment and no where to park it.

Anyway..... After spending all that money on a Journal bearing FP Red turbo, the FP Red Ball Bearing has been released!

I am thinking that while the my car is at the tuners and he has offered to fit and map the turbo it would make sense to go for a ball bearing turbo; if only for the increased reliability and less chance of the turbo dieing and damaging the new 2.2L Engine build. I can also sell my virtually brand new FP Red HTA (only has dyno run-in miles) to help pay for it.

Now the two BB turbos I am looking at are either the FP Red HTA BB or BBK-B BB (BLOUCH 760XT-R).

I would prefer to stick with FP but I have no UK results for the FP Red BB so I was hoping you US guys had done more testing since I assume it has been out here longer?

The BBK-B BB has grabbed my attention too because a UK member of MLR (Evo owners club) has one and I must admit it looks awesome with a massive improvement over his old BBK-B (journal bearing)

http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=396658

The resukts are on a 2.0L!!

If the FP Red BB offers similar or better performance then I am sold, but the BBK-B BB is looking a tempting turbo and is cheaper to buy too.

Thanks for any help offered.

Anees

sparky

iTrader: (1)

I would do either the BB BBK-B with the surge ported cover, or the BB HTA Green with the FP oil feed line. I realize that the Green is not on your short list, but it should be. It is absolutely one of the best bolt-on street turbos available, especially in BB format.

If it was my choice, I would cross the BB Red off the list because if you are going to go Red, then you might as well go BB Black. Only a couple hundred RPM difference in spoolup exists between the two turbos, and an easy 45WHP difference in power. In fact the BB Black should spoolup substantially the same as your current journal bearing Red.

But, overall, because you've expressed that you value overall responsiveness, as well as lowend and midrange torque, and that yours is a fast road car, then I would suggest either the BB-HTA Green. or the BB-BBK-B(3B).

EDIT: You might also want to seriously consider the new BB-BBK-C. In fact, this turbo might be right up your alley. The BBK-C's compressor flows marginally more than the Red and about 6 CFM more than the BBK-B. Something to think about at least.

Anees

Thanks for the information....

I knew I would get the FP Black suggested... The issue with the Black is I would seriously have to replace my AYC with an RS diff which I don't really want and also would need to do a a 5 speed swap to be able to use it at its full potential (650bhp ++ turbo!). At that power level, transfer boxes and diffs can become consumables! lol

I would rather stick with a nice 500 - 580bhp setup. Before I had my car done I had many test drives and my favourite was a 2.2L on an FP Green HTA. My tuner recommended the FP Red because it spools almost the same as the green (he said on the road its hard to detect much difference in spool up, but on dynos its around 250rpm) and makes more power top end.

Has anyone got an FP Red BB that could post how it responds on the road compared to a journal bearing FP Red or even a BBK-B BB?

sparky

iTrader: (1)

You shouldn't just assume that because it is capable of producing more topend horsepower, the FP Black is going to be harder on drivetrain components than an FP Red, or a BBK-B. Torque is what's going to break your gearbox and your TC, not horsepower per se.

You state that for you low-end torque production is important. Well, I have news for you, the Red and the BBK-B are probably going to produce higher low-end, lower midrange, midrange and upper midrange torque numbers than a Black will, everything else remaining the same.

fromWRXtoEVO

iTrader: (18)

From reading your post it seems like you are the type of guy like me as far is choices and driveability and response. I would go for the HTA Green Ball bearing or the BBk BB(if it is available). To me the Red is a little too big for quick response.

Carlos

localtoys73

iTrader: (24)

hta green bb would be my vote. I might have missed it did you say what type of fuel?

Anees

Fuel is Shell V-Power. Which is 99 RON Pump Fuel.

Go_Lancer_Go

iTrader: (13)

I wanted to bounce this off you...

The BB Black may spool similar to JB Red however still making full boost is not nearly the same...OR IS IT?

w/ the new BB HTA Green, I heard it spools & responds just like stock evo 9 turbo but doesnt make as much top end as red.

BBK-BB doesnt flow as much as red but the BBK-C does.

sparky

iTrader: (1)

I guess that only the OP knows exactly how his engine's additional 200cc of displacement influences spool up on his JB Red, and whether that level of spool was acceptable, or whether he is wanting even better spool and transient response. And whether he would be willing to accept the tradeoff of slightly less top-end from a BB-BBK-B, or a BB-HTA Green in exchange for even better spool than a BB-Red would offer.

I was just placing the BB-HTA Green and the BB-BBK-C as possible bookends at opposite ends of a spectrum which would include the other two BB turbo stock-frame turbos(CBRD BB-BBK-B, and the BB FP Red) which he originally mentioned.

I realize that the BB Black would probably be considered a far reach for a fast driven road car on pump gas. I'd think that he would want to go no bigger than the still to be released BB BBK-C. I just mentioned the "C", whose compressor flows a tad more than that of his Red, but due to the BB format probably outspools it, just in case he was not yet aware of its pending release.

EDIT: I realize that it must seem that I am just talking straight off the top of my head(as usual). But, I personally run a JB Red on my car and it just spools at least 400 RPM slower than I would like it to....even extremely preloaded. So, I am interested to see what the OP decides to get and am looking forward to reading his driving impressions once he installs his new turbo.

CBRD

iTrader: (60)

if we can help let us know!

cb

STWHY?

iTrader: (2)

Sparky,when are you seeing full spool on your jb red???if you dont mind me asking????

sparky

iTrader: (1)

Look I don't want to derail this thread more than I already have so I'll PM you the results after I road test it saturday or sunday. Although, I may wait until I degree my cams which are currently set at -2/-3 to a more advanced setting such as +2/0. I am advancing the cam timing in a further and last ditch effort to improve turbo spool up on my JB Red. In fact, I had it spooling fairly decent even with the current retarded -2/-3 setting because I had the WGA way over tightened.

Don't get me wrong the JB Red does not really spool up all that bad. It is just that currently I like to drive on twisty mountain secondary roads with relatively tight 35-50 mph corners connected by short straightaways(75 mph max). The Red just doesn't wake up on my favorite stretch of road.

Also, my RS has the ultra shorty JDM C.R. 5-spd. and I am always short shifting on that road at between 3800-6200 RPM. So, in that rev range the Red is just not happening at all. Once I get it out on the open highway the Red comes into its element on high speed sweepers.

Perhaps I am not being really fair in my evaluation of the JB Red. My car was not retuned yet for the Red after my OS Green. As I mentioned, the cams are retarded which hinders turbo spool up as well. Finally, I am having issues with my WGA which is strictly my fault too.

CBRE

iTrader: (77)

I have about 200 or so miles on the new FP DBB Red, at this point im really happy with it, a great happy medium between the Black and Green, im seeing 200ish diff in spool at worst and 50ish hp of the Green. Oh but wait im just on pump gas IF the weather breaks I will drive it to Buschurs to see how it goes, but as of right now the cars the fastest it's ever been, even without E85.

BoostINurI

iTrader: (4)

^^^^ That people is why im waiting for my black to blow chunks....i traded red for a black and really miss the reds snap.....maybe i should just run some royal purple in my car for a month hmmmm....jk

CBRE

iTrader: (77)

Snap is a good way to put it!