Compressor Surge Problem!
#16
Evolved Member
iTrader: (25)
The thought is that above a certain boost level(15-20psi) the solenoid blocks off pressure to the bottom port and now you have boost on the top port holding the valve closed along with the spring pressure, which should keep the bov closed at higher boost pressures.
Its on my list of things to do, but it will take a backseat to the install and testing of my new GTX3576r turbo that was shipped friday
#18
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Unfortunately, it will likely not be that easy, but that may depend on how much boost you are running. If you purchased the stock IX, HKS or Greddy unit I previous indicated and hooked up the top port to the intake and the bottom port to a boost source prior to the throttle body it would likely help or even solve your problem. However, you will likely run into the same issue as the stock IX bov as it will begin to leak at a certain boost level (25psi or so). This is because you have the same pressure on the top/bottom of the actuator, which essentially negates its affect and the force on the surface of the valve eventually overcomes the spring force causing the valve to open.
The thought is that above a certain boost level(15-20psi) the solenoid blocks off pressure to the bottom port and now you have boost on the top port holding the valve closed along with the spring pressure, which should keep the bov closed at higher boost pressures.
Its on my list of things to do, but it will take a backseat to the install and testing of my new GTX3576r turbo that was shipped friday
The thought is that above a certain boost level(15-20psi) the solenoid blocks off pressure to the bottom port and now you have boost on the top port holding the valve closed along with the spring pressure, which should keep the bov closed at higher boost pressures.
Its on my list of things to do, but it will take a backseat to the install and testing of my new GTX3576r turbo that was shipped friday
In my case, yes my top bov is hooked direct to the intake and turbosmart race port bov does not come with the bottom port.
Hope Turbosmart USA able to advise me
#19
Evolved Member
iTrader: (25)
http://www.boostcontroller.com/index...category%3D354
http://www.jakelatham.com/1gDSM/projects/dejon_bov/
A simple test of the TurboSmart controller concept may be to unplug the top port from the BOV and then plug the line to the intake. See if the spring pressure is light enough to open under part throttle acceleration eliminating surge. In theory, with a super light spring, when boost is applied to the top port the surface area on the actuator is significantly more than on the valve so it should keep the valve closed.
Last edited by 240Z TwinTurbo; Mar 4, 2012 at 10:29 AM.
#20
Evolved Member
iTrader: (25)
As background, my GTX3076r has bad surge problems ever since I went from the stock IX BOV to the Tial QR unit w/ 10psi spring.
I unhooked the top port on the Tial QR and plugged the source at the intake manifold. Took the car for a drive and it completely eliminated the part throttle surge. If I boost past 10psi you can hear the valve open and the car won't build boost. Under part throttle acceleration where the car used to surge and shutter badly it is now completely smooth.
I need to now determine how I will open the top port and under what conditions. The TurboSmart unit works off TPS, but I am skeptical this will account for all scenarios. Definitely something I need to think about.
Here is what is listed on the TurboSmart page:
Sensitivity: How sensitive the controller is to negative changes in throttle movement.
Duration: How long the solenoid stays open to bleed out the air from the BOV (i.e how long the BOV is open for) The solenoid will reactivate when the BOV controller reads positive throttle movement to close the BOV and pressurize the intake system.
Enable: Keeps the solenoid energized. This can be used as a boost limiting function as the BOV will bleed air out lowering the boost levels entering the engine.
Disable: Disables the BOV controller and returns the intake system to its factory setting.
I unhooked the top port on the Tial QR and plugged the source at the intake manifold. Took the car for a drive and it completely eliminated the part throttle surge. If I boost past 10psi you can hear the valve open and the car won't build boost. Under part throttle acceleration where the car used to surge and shutter badly it is now completely smooth.
I need to now determine how I will open the top port and under what conditions. The TurboSmart unit works off TPS, but I am skeptical this will account for all scenarios. Definitely something I need to think about.
Here is what is listed on the TurboSmart page:
Sensitivity: How sensitive the controller is to negative changes in throttle movement.
Duration: How long the solenoid stays open to bleed out the air from the BOV (i.e how long the BOV is open for) The solenoid will reactivate when the BOV controller reads positive throttle movement to close the BOV and pressurize the intake system.
Enable: Keeps the solenoid energized. This can be used as a boost limiting function as the BOV will bleed air out lowering the boost levels entering the engine.
Disable: Disables the BOV controller and returns the intake system to its factory setting.
#22
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Thank you so much 240Z but the problem is my turbosmart race port bov dont have a bottom and its only with the top port which ive connected directly onto the intake.
So, can i try an Evo 8 or 9 oem stock plastic bov?
So, can i try an Evo 8 or 9 oem stock plastic bov?
#23
Evolved Member
iTrader: (25)
- Keep what you have and live with it
- Call TurboSmart and ask them about their electronic bov controller as a potential to solve your surge issue.
- Swap to a dual port unit like the IX bov, but you will have issue holding boost above 25psi
- Swap to a dual port unit like the Greddy/HKS and hook up a solenoid to the bottom port as described in the DejonTool link I previosly provided.
#24
Evolved Member
iTrader: (15)
Jeez enough with the BOV. Your problem is boost control as you have shown yourelf by turning off the EBC which is obviously not opening the WG before you hit the surge line on your way up to your target boost. Dial that back if you can, Tephra's V7 ROM is awesome because you will hit the surge line in different places depending on gear and load plus you can crush spikes with error correction. \thread.
Last edited by wingless; Mar 4, 2012 at 07:30 PM.
#25
Evolved Member
iTrader: (25)
Jeez enough with the BOV. Your problem is boost control as you have shown yourelf by turning off the EBC which is obviously not opening the WG before you hit the surge line on your way up to your target boost. Dial that back if you can, Tephra's V7 ROM is awesome because you will hit the surge line in different places depending on gear and load plus you can crush spikes with error correction. \thread.
#26
Evolved Member
iTrader: (15)
Right... So you have too much pressure in the charge pipe colliding with a spinning compressor wheel.
You can:
a. Vent excess pressure through the BOV (leaking)
b. Back of WGDC driving the comp wheel at lower % TPS/load/RPM
Do whatever you want, but one is designed to tune and can be dialed in to a variety of load and pressure situations and the other requires changing parts and is largely static. FWIW OEM does both.
Nice picture of your engine though.
Last edited by wingless; Mar 4, 2012 at 10:53 PM.
#27
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Right... So you have too much pressure in the charge pipe colliding with a spinning compressor wheel.
You can:
a. Vent excess pressure through the BOV (leaking)
b. Back of WGDC driving the comp wheel at lower % TPS/load/RPM
Do whatever you want, but one is designed to tune and can be dialed in to a variety of load and pressure situations and the other requires changing parts and is largely static. FWIW OEM does both.
Nice picture of your engine though.
You can:
a. Vent excess pressure through the BOV (leaking)
b. Back of WGDC driving the comp wheel at lower % TPS/load/RPM
Do whatever you want, but one is designed to tune and can be dialed in to a variety of load and pressure situations and the other requires changing parts and is largely static. FWIW OEM does both.
Nice picture of your engine though.
mind to advise which area should i dial on my Greddy profec B II B/C?
Ive tried lower the Gain to the lowest min % (5%) and the surge is still there.
Is it the Set Gain which i need to dial? The set gain is basically control the turbo boost response.
Thanks
#28
Evolved Member
iTrader: (15)
Hi Wingless,
mind to advise which area should i dial on my Greddy profec B II B/C?
Ive tried lower the Gain to the lowest min % (5%) and the surge is still there.
Is it the Set Gain which i need to dial? The set gain is basically control the turbo boost response.
Thanks
mind to advise which area should i dial on my Greddy profec B II B/C?
Ive tried lower the Gain to the lowest min % (5%) and the surge is still there.
Is it the Set Gain which i need to dial? The set gain is basically control the turbo boost response.
Thanks
I wish I could help here, but I have never messed with one. I would start tweaking and logging... Sorry. I have already plugged V7 enough I think
#30
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (50)
Hi,
im hoping to get some tips on how to overcome my compressor surge problem.
ATP GT3076R
GSC S2
2.0L engine with stock head & intake
Turbosmart Race Port Bov
When partial lift off at higer rpm (around 5500~6000rpm) engine will judder massively and if WOT all the way no plm at all.
Only happen when partial lift off.
Been told that it cant really be solve as the turbo is supplying more air than the engine can consume.
Is there any other way to overcome this problem by not asking me to go stroker?
Thanks
im hoping to get some tips on how to overcome my compressor surge problem.
ATP GT3076R
GSC S2
2.0L engine with stock head & intake
Turbosmart Race Port Bov
When partial lift off at higer rpm (around 5500~6000rpm) engine will judder massively and if WOT all the way no plm at all.
Only happen when partial lift off.
Been told that it cant really be solve as the turbo is supplying more air than the engine can consume.
Is there any other way to overcome this problem by not asking me to go stroker?
Thanks
unfortunately, this will not likely solve the problem. My surge issues started when I swapped from the stock IX BOV to the Tial recirculating. You need to use a dual port (like stock IX) to promote valve opening at part throttle low boost acceleration. Unfortunately, dual port will likely open under full boost due to the balance of pressure across the top/bottom of the actuator.
I am working on a fix for this using a hobbs switch and naturally open solenoid. The thought is to have the bottom port open under normal driving and have the bottom port cut off above a certain boost level. This will make it like a standard top port bov such as the TIAL unit.
....
I am working on a fix for this using a hobbs switch and naturally open solenoid. The thought is to have the bottom port open under normal driving and have the bottom port cut off above a certain boost level. This will make it like a standard top port bov such as the TIAL unit.
....
Last edited by mrfred; Mar 6, 2012 at 08:33 AM.