New times with BR clutchless 4 speed
Sep 12, 2012, 06:52 PM
#1
New times with BR clutchless 4 speed
We hit the track tonight with the car again. Last time out at the Shootout the car ran a 9.55 at 143 mph, the MPH made no sense as we ran 140 at 30 psi and only 143 at 38 psi. The next pass the pump failed in the trans, my thought was the trans was failing on the 9.55 pass.
We fixed the problems but didn't have a new HD flexplate so opted to use one I was skeptical about. The plan was to make one pass, get the car up in the air and then double check the bolts and go from there.
I drove the car on the street and it felt FAST.
I wanted to video tape and to be honest I enjoy watching "my creation" run so Kevin came out to drive it. He said he wanted to take it easy the first pass and come out soft, no burn out and leave a little extra air in the tires. I agreed.
Watching a run through a video camera sucks, I hate it but videos are great for advertising. So I did my duties and when he left it seemed weak. I was watching through the video camera thinking how slow the car was, WTF could be wrong with it and where to go from there. Then he crossed the finish line and I looked up to see the score board and saw a 9.31 at 146.73 mph and about **** myself. There was absolutely no way in hell the car just ran that fast, it looked like a 12 second pass to me!
Dean, Kevin's dad and my son Zachary were out there so we rushed back to the trailer. I knew we needed to check the torque converter bolts, pull a log and decide from there what to do with tire pressure and launch RPM.
We waited and waited.........Zachary volunteered to start walking to see where Kevin was and I went and found another racer with an ATV to go pull the car back.
The car was broke. I jacked it up and found all the bolts were gone and the holes in the flexplate were oblong by a good 1/2". Whatever happened wasn't good as it backed the damper off in the process and I can't turn the engine over. I'm guessing one of those bolts are lodged in the bell housing. Going to be a ***** to get apart I am sure.
The good news. The trans works for sure. Kevin left the line at just 3800 rpm on the foot brake, 4.7 psi of boost is all, the car left soft and then he said it started to spin and he decided to ride the spin our instead of pumping the gas to get it to catch, the 60' time was still a 1.43, then it ran a 3.91 in the 330', 6.00 in the 1/8th at 118.86 mph and the 9.318 at 146.73 mph.
I pulled the log, 38 psi of boost peak, AFR's right where I want them, timing is still down maybe 5 degrees from where I'd set it on kill.
My guess is once again once the car was in 3rd gear the damage was being done.
I'm guessing it's going to take about 150-151 mph trap speeds to get the car in the 8.90's. This turbo really like 43-44 psi of boost and that's where we ran the 9.0 at 159 with the car on the 5 speed. So we have another 5-6 psi of boost to get to that sweet spot and we already know the car has run 1.39 sixty foot times, add it all up and I am very-very hopeful of running some great times.
So, tomorrow we will start taking it all apart to determine what got torn up this time. I'll have to wait for Kiggly to build the new custom flexplate for me, I sent him a sample and he's had it a few days now.
Still a good night, I have nothing to complain about. We are moving in the right direction and I'd rather sort it out than have customers trying to do it.
We fixed the problems but didn't have a new HD flexplate so opted to use one I was skeptical about. The plan was to make one pass, get the car up in the air and then double check the bolts and go from there.
I drove the car on the street and it felt FAST.
I wanted to video tape and to be honest I enjoy watching "my creation" run so Kevin came out to drive it. He said he wanted to take it easy the first pass and come out soft, no burn out and leave a little extra air in the tires. I agreed.
Watching a run through a video camera sucks, I hate it but videos are great for advertising. So I did my duties and when he left it seemed weak. I was watching through the video camera thinking how slow the car was, WTF could be wrong with it and where to go from there. Then he crossed the finish line and I looked up to see the score board and saw a 9.31 at 146.73 mph and about **** myself. There was absolutely no way in hell the car just ran that fast, it looked like a 12 second pass to me!
Dean, Kevin's dad and my son Zachary were out there so we rushed back to the trailer. I knew we needed to check the torque converter bolts, pull a log and decide from there what to do with tire pressure and launch RPM.
We waited and waited.........Zachary volunteered to start walking to see where Kevin was and I went and found another racer with an ATV to go pull the car back.
The car was broke. I jacked it up and found all the bolts were gone and the holes in the flexplate were oblong by a good 1/2". Whatever happened wasn't good as it backed the damper off in the process and I can't turn the engine over. I'm guessing one of those bolts are lodged in the bell housing. Going to be a ***** to get apart I am sure.
The good news. The trans works for sure. Kevin left the line at just 3800 rpm on the foot brake, 4.7 psi of boost is all, the car left soft and then he said it started to spin and he decided to ride the spin our instead of pumping the gas to get it to catch, the 60' time was still a 1.43, then it ran a 3.91 in the 330', 6.00 in the 1/8th at 118.86 mph and the 9.318 at 146.73 mph.
I pulled the log, 38 psi of boost peak, AFR's right where I want them, timing is still down maybe 5 degrees from where I'd set it on kill.
My guess is once again once the car was in 3rd gear the damage was being done.
I'm guessing it's going to take about 150-151 mph trap speeds to get the car in the 8.90's. This turbo really like 43-44 psi of boost and that's where we ran the 9.0 at 159 with the car on the 5 speed. So we have another 5-6 psi of boost to get to that sweet spot and we already know the car has run 1.39 sixty foot times, add it all up and I am very-very hopeful of running some great times.
So, tomorrow we will start taking it all apart to determine what got torn up this time. I'll have to wait for Kiggly to build the new custom flexplate for me, I sent him a sample and he's had it a few days now.
Still a good night, I have nothing to complain about. We are moving in the right direction and I'd rather sort it out than have customers trying to do it.
Sep 13, 2012, 08:45 AM
#5
just 3800 rpm on the foot brake, 4.7 psi of boost is all, the car left soft , the 60' time was still a 1.43
amazing for sure. launching with clutches suckk. torque converters for the win. I think you should lower your 8.9 goal. would like to see you crush it.
amazing for sure. launching with clutches suckk. torque converters for the win. I think you should lower your 8.9 goal. would like to see you crush it.
Sep 13, 2012, 10:16 AM
#7
Wow, I like. Consistency, less stress on crank, drivetrain components, and not having to replace a $5,000 clutch after a few dozen launches. Even an old man like me could drive it. I admire your determination to follow this project through despite many failures.
Don
Don
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Sep 13, 2012, 10:18 AM
#8
We have the trans out and got real lucky. Converter pad/threads are damaged, we lost all but one converter bolt, one got lodged in between the flexplate and the block. The engine is undamaged too, which is awesome. So other than ripping three of the four bolts through the flexplate nothing is hurt. We are going to make our next upgrade to the trans that we have been holding off on to make the shifts even faster than they are, other than that nothing will get touched. I'm at Kiggly's mercy now and will be waiting on the new custom flexplate he is going to build for us. One other really lucky item, I HATE adjustable cam gears. Dave happened to notice when we checked the timing that one of the bolts were backed out of the HKS spocket, upon further inspection one other was too, so ONE bolt was left keeping the gear in place on the exhaust side and one was backed out on the intake side too. I red Loctited them back in and torqued them down. First chance I get I'll put the stock gears back on.
Sep 13, 2012, 10:20 AM
#9
Thanks Don and real nice to see you around here! Sorry to hear about your latest hardship, bad things happen to the best people it seems. Anytime you are ready to get the car tuned let me know!
94awd, baby steps!! Don't think for a second my mind isn't wandering! haha
94awd, baby steps!! Don't think for a second my mind isn't wandering! haha
Sep 13, 2012, 10:29 AM
#11
To put some of this into perspective. When we were running the 5 speed the car typically was set up to leave off the 2 step at 6850 rpm and it build up to 15 psi like that. Then the driver has to fight it bogging or spinning, took me out of the drivers seat because I suck. The shifts were made at WOT and even shifting at 8500 rpm the car would bang the rev limiter at "10,000" rpm on the shifts, loose some boost and then have to recover, doing this on the 2nd and 3rd and 4th gear shifts. Through the traps in 4th gear with a stock final drive on a slick in my car at 159.6 mph the car was running 9850 rpm. So much time was spent dialing in the suspension and alignment on the car and we were always left wondering why the car would sometimes be smooth and others would hop around like you see so many EVO's do. Reality is the suspension works, it was the clutch manipulation, varying traction conditions and such that was messing with how the car left. This car is so smooth now it looks like I have $10,000 worth of suspension work done and a Pro Stock crew chief setting it all up. We can now leave at 3800-4000 rpm with 4-5 psi, no two step banging away and once the car leaves the boost hits instantly and holds a flat line through the entire run, no dips, no re-spooling the turbo, just a solid flat line. In the traps at 146.73 mph the RPM was only 8500. No more banging the rev limiter at 10,000 rpm on the shifts, no more banging the two steps on the shifts. The car is so quiet and smooth it looks deceptively SLOW.
Not only do I see this trans making the car quicker, more consisten and doing it for less money I see the engine lasting 10 times as long as they have without all the extra abuse. Hell forget about breaking driveline parts, days of dropping axles, rear diff and t-cases on the track from trying to launch should be over too.
This is just all good, well all but the huge MPH we use to run, those days will probably be over. I'm guessing a loss of 7 mph'ish with the auto but the ET's are going to be quicker and more consistent.
Not only do I see this trans making the car quicker, more consisten and doing it for less money I see the engine lasting 10 times as long as they have without all the extra abuse. Hell forget about breaking driveline parts, days of dropping axles, rear diff and t-cases on the track from trying to launch should be over too.
This is just all good, well all but the huge MPH we use to run, those days will probably be over. I'm guessing a loss of 7 mph'ish with the auto but the ET's are going to be quicker and more consistent.
Sep 13, 2012, 04:22 PM
#15
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the way the car moves forward is sooo impressive!!!
What is a flexplate? i am not very familiar with the auto trannies... I googled it and it looks like the manual gearbox's flywheel. Same purpose?
What is a flexplate? i am not very familiar with the auto trannies... I googled it and it looks like the manual gearbox's flywheel. Same purpose?