Speed density or no...
Nov 6, 2012, 02:46 PM
#1
Speed density or no...
So I've ordered the last bit of parts for my 2.3 build. I'm going to be using the stock 8 turbo for now because I've accumulated quite the credit debt trying to ensure i cover every aspect where error could possibly occur. Two questions though...
1) Will I be okay with the stock intercooler? Only for a little while until I can save up a little bit more for a new one.
2) Should I go SD or stick with the maf. Eventually I will get a 6262 but I just can't afford it right now. I could always save up and do the turbo and switch to SD at the same time though. If you do suggest going SD with stock turbo, I've heard of people using IAT and also using a fuel temp sensor instead. This is where I started getting confused.
Any help would be great guys. I just want to get some other opinions to make sure I've covered absolutely everything before taking it to get tuned, and if not then what I should consider or think about. Thanks again
1) Will I be okay with the stock intercooler? Only for a little while until I can save up a little bit more for a new one.
2) Should I go SD or stick with the maf. Eventually I will get a 6262 but I just can't afford it right now. I could always save up and do the turbo and switch to SD at the same time though. If you do suggest going SD with stock turbo, I've heard of people using IAT and also using a fuel temp sensor instead. This is where I started getting confused.
Any help would be great guys. I just want to get some other opinions to make sure I've covered absolutely everything before taking it to get tuned, and if not then what I should consider or think about. Thanks again
Nov 6, 2012, 03:17 PM
#6
That's good to hear man. Are you running a larger intercooler with the stock turbo? My buddy was telling me charge temps would be higher running off an IAT sensor, I'm not sure about the fuel temp. This is the reason for my questioning about the intercooler as well.
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Nov 6, 2012, 04:06 PM
#8
The only requirement for sd is map and some form or kind of temp input. Stock parts and stoker motors make no difference. One benefit to sd is air is "metered" inside the intake manifold. Maf obviously is before the turbo. This changes your set up options and doesn't require a recirc valve. One downside is the jitter if you have a car that likes to putt low rpms ie 2.3 with small turbo. The jitter may bother you. It bothered me. I found a different sd set up that didn't experience the issue though.
Nov 6, 2012, 04:32 PM
#9
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The only requirement for sd is map and some form or kind of temp input. Stock parts and stoker motors make no difference. One benefit to sd is air is "metered" inside the intake manifold. Maf obviously is before the turbo. This changes your set up options and doesn't require a recirc valve. One downside is the jitter if you have a car that likes to putt low rpms ie 2.3 with small turbo. The jitter may bother you. It bothered me. I found a different sd set up that didn't experience the issue though.
Nov 6, 2012, 04:56 PM
#11
The only requirement for sd is map and some form or kind of temp input. Stock parts and stoker motors make no difference. One benefit to sd is air is "metered" inside the intake manifold. Maf obviously is before the turbo. This changes your set up options and doesn't require a recirc valve. One downside is the jitter if you have a car that likes to putt low rpms ie 2.3 with small turbo. The jitter may bother you. It bothered me. I found a different sd set up that didn't experience the issue though.
I was runnin vta before ripping my motor out with no problems. I would like to hear more about this jitterbug youre speaking of though.
The engine's being built during this thanksgiving holiday. I plan to accomplish a lot during that time but I hope to save up some more money until around christmas holidays where hopefully santa drops a nice buschur fmic under my tree
Nov 6, 2012, 05:02 PM
#12
I use the fuel temp sensor to mimic an IAT since its already in the car. The IAT reads gross temp not average. It can heat soak, be subject to a meth jet to close, all sorts of little issues. The actual trim table in the Evo ECU really isnt setup for IAT trim anyway. It has an algorithm that allows for minor alterations to fueling since its set for a MAF, and then trims timing vs air temp.
Fuel temp is more or less constant. The fuel heatsoaks going thru the rail hits the tank and then is sent forward again. It takes 15 minutes to get full heat into the fuel system (ask anyone with an A1000). It is a rough average of engine bay temp which is what the MAF does factory. I have done exhaustive testing and see no more than 5-6* variation from fuel temp as a source to what the MAF would read in the corner of the engine bay.
Fuel temp is more or less constant. The fuel heatsoaks going thru the rail hits the tank and then is sent forward again. It takes 15 minutes to get full heat into the fuel system (ask anyone with an A1000). It is a rough average of engine bay temp which is what the MAF does factory. I have done exhaustive testing and see no more than 5-6* variation from fuel temp as a source to what the MAF would read in the corner of the engine bay.
Nov 6, 2012, 05:07 PM
#13
the jitter is a odd hesitation that goes int o the fuel ipw calculation somewhere some how idk.. I experienced it at 2200-2500. IX's were supposed to be devoid of the jitter, however I had it.
Not everyone experiences it, which means tehres common ground in those that do, but noone has narrowed that down afaik.
Its light throttle cruising in the city like 3-4th gear where its noticable. probably not an issue for most people depending how you drive. im just really conservative in the city.
theres a good chance you wont have it. but it can be there
air temp has to be accounted for whether it be using the fuel temp in place of the air temp reading, or using a gmiat. I use a gmiat welded in my uicp. Some prefer it one way or another. What I have seen is its up to the tuner. ER prefers fuel temp, and so does TSC.
there is a zillion threads on setting up sspeed density on the stock ecu, if you have the time, you can set it up yourself. Its easier imho..
Not everyone experiences it, which means tehres common ground in those that do, but noone has narrowed that down afaik.
Its light throttle cruising in the city like 3-4th gear where its noticable. probably not an issue for most people depending how you drive. im just really conservative in the city.
theres a good chance you wont have it. but it can be there
air temp has to be accounted for whether it be using the fuel temp in place of the air temp reading, or using a gmiat. I use a gmiat welded in my uicp. Some prefer it one way or another. What I have seen is its up to the tuner. ER prefers fuel temp, and so does TSC.
there is a zillion threads on setting up sspeed density on the stock ecu, if you have the time, you can set it up yourself. Its easier imho..
Nov 6, 2012, 05:07 PM
#15
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Ive been looking into SD as well, but if you were running MAF before and your trying to save money at this point there really is no need to go SD. You could switch later with no adverse affects. You can run your stock intercooler. It will hurt your power levels some but with just an 8 turbo its not a big deal. If you had a 6262 you would def need a bigger IC to up the boost and get efficient intake temps. IMO.