Air Assult

You seem to keep dancing around direct questions.

1)what have you done power wise on pump gas using Any GT wheel combination.

2) Name a specific GT wheel combination that is comparable to a to4E 50 trim and how much power have you made with it.

My car made 437whp on pump gas utilizing a Full Garrett t04E 50 trim. What does that have to do with drag racing? It also utilizes the exact same motor that's in your evo so how is it different?

Where im from this is considered bench racing. Hard numbers are what determines a turbos potency.


Best of luck.

LordHighBinary

OKAY GUYS HOLD ON!!!

to quote a favorite movie of mine: "let's not argue about who killed who.."

N E WAYS,
Being a newb regarding Compressor and trim sizes, maybe I better rephrase the question again.

Okay... I'm looking for a turbo with similar spool characteristics with the stock turbo, but more power. From my research I came accross two possible turbos: the t3/t40e and the GT30R series.

I guess my guestion is what configuration of the t3/t4 or GT30R trubo would provide me with what I am asking. Spoolup at 5000 rpm is NOT acceptable, looking for under 4000, and 350-400hp on 91 ocatane. (if possible)

Then the other operative question is can I acheve 350-400 (whp with supporting mods) on the stock turbo and 91 octane, or do i need to upgrade it?

Sorry for the confusion, and guys.. please be nice I don't want this thread to get locked.

thanks in advance,
SMS

4G63>OOOO

iTrader: (1)

I think your best bet for your goals of stock spoolup and a bit more power would be a BR475, available through Buschur racing. Take a look at the dyno plots, folks, it looks like a stock turbo car with a lot more top end and that's with the conservative HKS cams. Once you pop in 272's, that changes the ballgame a lot.

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

If you're looking for stock-like spool up characteristics as well as more power potential, don't bother with a single entry turbine wheel. Especially from a T-series turbo. You're not going to find something that as reponsive as the factory twin entry turbine without giving up power up top.

Perhaps your best bet would be the twin scroll 16G off of an EVO 6. It has the bigger 10.5 exhaust housing which would be worth considerable power up top. It also has the lightweight titanium turbine wheel which should, according to my friends at Garret, offset some of the boost response loss associated with the bigger exhaust A/R.

FWIW, according to another friend at Mopar (who designs and ecu tunes the stage upgrades for the SRT4), they are using a similar turbo set-up for their Stage 3 package.

Regards,
shiv

Air Assult

Listen guys there is a lot of anti dsm based tuning sentiment found on these board. The fact of the matter. Is the dsm community has done the majority of the trial and error work. To find what turbo and tuning methods work for the 4g63.You guys have a *better* version of the tried and true 4g63.

Better flowing head more compression..ect. There are turbo combinations that just work with this motor on pump gas. The TO4E 50 trim is among the best.

It simply works, spools quickly and is amazingly efficient on pump gas. All the new GT turbos are better suited for high boost levels that you cannot run on pump gas.

The GT combinations that are efficient enough to make power on pump gas are so huge. That they spools just under 5000 rpms. The choice is ultimately yours. DSM guys have made over 400whp on California 91 using 50 trim turbos. You have the same motor only better and in a betetr car.Pick up the ball and run with it.

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

There are no anti-DSM sentiments in any of these posts. Just realize that the info you are spreading about GT-series turbos is innaccurate. The 3037 in my car makes 25psi 4000rpm. 30psi by 4100rpm. They spool quicker, they have more efficient compressor and turbine aero, and are more durable than 70s vintage T-series turbos. This is fact. I cannot change it. Instead of taking the word of other vendors as gospel, talk to field application engineers at Garret and try one our yourself. If you find that they don't outperform a comparable T-series hybrid, nothing lost. I'm sure you won't have a problem selling it.

FWIW, on an AWD Dynojet, the 3037 on our EVO makes over 400 whp on our reformulated CA 91 octane. And approx 530whp on c16 which is about the limit of the turbo. On 94 octane, it'll make somewhere in the middle.

shiv

MrBonus

iTrader: (4)

I hear you. I think for most of us looking for a certain range of effective pump gas power, the 50 trim T-series are awesome for the price.

As much as I like the idea of the GT series turbo, I'd also like to pay down my credit card debt within the year.

Air Assult

I think you have just proven my points to be dead on.

On my personl car the 50 trim spools 26 psi at 3500 with no ball bearing CHRA and makes 437whp on pump gas.

not at pump gas boost levels but possibly at 28-30 psi.

Been there and done that. Lost 30whp at the same boost level and picked up large amounts of detonation.

A 3037 setup is about 5400 bucks. A full Garrett 50 trim is about 1800. Spools faster and makes more pump gas Hp. Also the rebuild cost is about a fraction of the rebuild price of the 3037 if the turbo fails due to oil contamination. Its just a win win across the board.


Good Luck.

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

More misinformation. Especially the $5400 price for the 3037 set up. Does that include the tubular manifold, external wastegate, downpipe, etc,? Because the GT3037 turbo, alone, is around $2k.

FWIW, in our Impreza 2.5RS turbo kit and Stage 3 WRX package, we used a 50trim T04E with a 76 trim turbine wheel (which I believe, in Turbonetics-speak, is a Stage III) in a .63 housing. As far as T3/T4s go, it worked very well and, at $600 per turbo, is quite a bargain. But let's not pretend that it's state of the art or declare it's supremacy to something that is. Good turbo, yes. Best turbo, no.

shiv

Air Assult

A complete Garrett 50 trim setup will cost between 1800-2200 depending on what vender you buy it from. That price includes the turbo tubular manifold external wastegate and tubular 02 housing.

Every price I have seen the 3037 kit was 5K and up with a crack prone tube header. A new CHRA is 800-900 to replace on the 3037. A 50 trim with 360* thrust bearing is 400 to replace. My accomplishment are not misinformation they are proven facts.


Good luck.

Speedlimit

The technical debate between Shiv and Air-Assault is excellent and great information. I would love to see the debate taken to a side bar thread.

The problem I have is that while you two guys are toe to toe debating, the member who posted originally is over in the corner jumping up and down yelling "yo what about me". He ask some specific questions and the replies should stick to that. In any case if this debate goes another round while ignoring lordhighbinary I will lock both of you out of this thread.

Speedlimit....

Air Assult

Well, said sir my apologies. let me look back and offer a comment if I have any *factual* info to add.

umiami80

iTrader: (1)

Well here is a Evo makingn 500WHP on stock internals, 272's and you guess it, Pump gas.

It is a AMS GT35R turbo, I little Laggy but certainly hits full boost WAY before 5000RPMS, will hold 30PSI tp 10,000RPMS if you ask it too.

http://www.automotosports.com/ams_evo_for_sale.asp

Air Assult

Your goals are consistent with what most people are looking for in a daily driven pump gas car. Buschurs 475 kit will provide the type of response you are looking for. At a price that wont leave you broke.

The SFP TO4E 50 trim kit will spool just a little slower but flow a little more up top. You can always get a .48 a/r housing that will spool a little quicker but compromise flow just a tad. Either setup will make 400whp on pump gas easily.

A turbo that spools at under 4K and makes 400whp on pump gas is devastating on the street.keep in mind my feedback is based in a motor with 7.8:1 not 8.8:1 like your evo. so spool time should be quick and yied more power then my car makes. As said above your head flows more unported then mine does.

I only suggest the 50 trim because it is proven to make the power you desire.

why did i get banned from posting to this thread!!!!!!!

here is the 50 trim compressor map

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

Myself and Andre pump gas king tested gt turbos back to back against nicely setup t series turbos. The gt series turbos left lots to be desired. As far as I am concerned you can take compressor maps and garrett engineers opinions with a grain of salt. The 50, 54, 57 , 60 trim t series turbos work very well on 4g63 2.0-2.4 liters. All these wheels can produce 450whp at 25-26psi boost on a nicely prepped setup. My 57 trim made 400whp/400tq on 22psi and pump gas. The 52lb gt turbo I tried spooled slower, made 10whp less, 40tq less, at 23-23.5psi and same gas. My peak hold air temp gauge showed the gt turbo blew 30 degree hotter air.

Angres results were pretty much the same as mine. his car lost like 25whp and 35tq when he swapped in a 55lb gt turbo. After two weeks of tuning both of us switched back to t series turbos and wala the power came back.

same results will be seen on the evo8 when someone actually gets down to doing a back to back instead of just bench racing on the subjuct.